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Logitech's Squeezebox Touch - opinions sought on quality - Page 6

post #76 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Willakan View Post

The power supply can affect jitter from the digital outputs, but the Squeezebox is low jitter to start with - far, far below the amount of jitter required for audibility. I would suggest that you buy the Squeezebox and leave it unmodded - it's a well engineered source that will sound exactly the same as the digital out from some monstrously expensive CD/SACD transport.

EDIT: Dynobot, just looked at your site as recommended for looking at in above posts...Linux and OS are more analytical sounding than Windows? Assuming you didn't screw up the configuration for bit-perfect playback on one of them, which, judging by your site, seems somewhat unlikely, how does that make any sense at all?

 

EDIT2: Looking further, why would any of this stuff affect sound? Optimising RAM latencies? Reducing CPU usage? What is the point of all that, aside from making your computer nigh incapable of doing anything apart from playing music (referring explicitly to the mass service disabling here)? Operating System Jitter? Really? Please tell me you don't have audiophile SATA cables...

 

I am not sure if this is (only) jitter but upgrading Duet's power supply from the stock switching crap to a linear one makes huge positive difference on all Audio GD dacs. It was audible on Lavry.As for modding, I described that Lampizator SPDIF output mods which I linked before did not audibly help (again: only Duet). I'd tend to believe that clock upgrade can make a difference even in case of Touch.


I would avoid statements like "well engineered source will sound the same as very expensive CD/SACD transports", let us leave that sort of things for the sound science forum -- there's more than enough of that stuff..

 

Apparently Squeezebox Duet is not a well engineered digital source, anyhow. Both USB transports I tried, HiFace Evo and  Audiophilleo 2, are quite in another league than the Duet, far better. But again,I hear this mostly on various Audio GD which are sensitive to SPDIF quality. The differences were not very pronouncable on the Lavry where I exactly failed blind testing between the Duet and Evo.

 

Dyno: the reason I am asking about the PSU is because most opinions on slimdevices forum are that in case of Touch (quite unlike as with the Duet)  linear PSU affects only analogue performance and does not improve SPDIF quality. 

 

Also I am curious how you rate Touch as a digital source compared to the best sources you heard. Is it any better or the same? 

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post #77 of 314


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post

Dyno: the reason I am asking about the PSU is because most opinions on slimdevices forum are that in case of Touch (quite unlike as with the Duet)  linear PSU affects only analogue performance and does not improve SPDIF quality. 


Prettymuch. Don't waste your money.

 

post #78 of 314


 

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by axw View Post



 

I am not sure if this is (only) jitter but upgrading Duet's power supply from the stock switching crap to a linear one makes huge positive difference on all Audio GD dacs. It was audible on Lavry.As for modding, I described that Lampizator SPDIF output mods which I linked before did not audibly help (again: only Duet). I'd tend to believe that clock upgrade can make a difference even in case of Touch.


I would avoid statements like "well engineered source will sound the same as very expensive CD/SACD transports", let us leave that sort of things for the sound science forum -- there's more than enough of that stuff..

 

Apparently Squeezebox Duet is not a well engineered digital source, anyhow. Both USB transports I tried, HiFace Evo and  Audiophilleo 2, are quite in another league than the Duet, far better. But again,I hear this mostly on various Audio GD which are sensitive to SPDIF quality. The differences were not very pronouncable on the Lavry where I exactly failed blind testing between the Duet and Evo.

 

Dyno: the reason I am asking about the PSU is because most opinions on slimdevices forum are that in case of Touch (quite unlike as with the Duet)  linear PSU affects only analogue performance and does not improve SPDIF quality. 

 

Also I am curious how you rate Touch as a digital source compared to the best sources you heard. Is it any better or the same? 


Hi awx,

 

To me the Touch using digital out [and with SC mods] sound pretty much the same as my modded Linux machine running Music Player Daemon.

 

Its hard to make a direct comparison between other digital sources I have heard because I don't own them anymore.  I used to own the Audiogd DI with upgraded clock by Tentlabs, upgraded powersupply, Adum isolator.  I also owned a Teradak converter and I have used the TC Konnekt as a spdif device. The Touch sounds just as good as any device....I have no desire to try to make it sound better via spdif so it appears nothing is missing in terms of sound quality.

 

post #79 of 314

I wouldn't advice anyone to buy a squeezebox it is insanely buggy. Buy a sonos or use your smartphone as a remote for your computer instead. The squeezebox sounds ok (thougs somewhat treble happy), but the ui and stability is shitty.

post #80 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by a:xus View Post

I wouldn't advice anyone to buy a squeezebox it is insanely buggy. Buy a sonos or use your smartphone as a remote for your computer instead. The squeezebox sounds ok (thougs somewhat treble happy), but the ui and stability is shitty.



Insanely buggy???  I've been running a Squeezebox for about 4 years, and I think I've had a problem with it twice.  Give me a break, you have no idea what you're talking about.

 

post #81 of 314

Only annoyance I have is the prompt to upgrade every time I switch servers.  However if I just hit HOME on the remote all is well and the prompt is bypassed.

 

One other note....SB works a lot smoother if both it and the server on wired instead of wireless in my set up.

 

 

post #82 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by nspindel View Post

... I've been running a Squeezebox for about 4 years, and I think I've had a problem with it twice.

 



I'd have to agree.  The interface may be a little hard sometimes to get used to, lacks some features I may want, and sometimes gets a little tweaky on initial setup, but I wouldn't call it "buggy" or "unstable".  As for sound, I've used the SB Classic and Touch almost solely as digital transports, so I can't comment on analog audio quality much.

post #83 of 314

Naturally I know what I am talking about. I am glad you have a unit that works well.

 

Issues I have right now:

cannot use any programs, the error is: wrong password for mysqueezebox.com or similar?

Whenever my computer (with the squaeezebox server) is off the programs work though...

Connecting to the computer is always a hassle that takes a liong time and sometimes multiple restarts are neccesary.

 

Changing libraries from one computer to another is also painfull.

 

Connecting to my rss feed pretty much impossible, even if I can access them on the computer just fine.

 Starting a track mostly brings up a flash of a previously played tracks cover art before the correct art is displayed.

 

Creating playlists on the fly should be intuitive and fast, it is sadly neither.

 

The biggest issue for me is that there are so many start up problems. The whole poin t for me was to get a unit I could start up faster than a computer and could be run via a remote. I have to get up and tjeck the display frequently at startup to get the damn thing to connect.

post #84 of 314

Well, I'd say you're doing something wrong then...

post #85 of 314

I will admit that playlists have been yucky for me, so I can feel your pain on that point.  I usually create them in Media Monkey so I can change and maintain them, then export the as an m3u playlist and point the Squeezebox in that direction for it.  While it's much easier to use my computer and it's GUI for playlist management, using the server or the unit itself is a bit arcane.

 

I only use one library on one computer, so I don't experience the problems you have with connection and the like unless my power goes out or something.  My computer is running almost all the time, and I know not everyone likes doing that.  Album art hasn't been a problem for me since I started downsizing some of the images.  I was doing that anyway so it would be easier and less stuff to do when I sync my mp3 player, so it's no hassle to me, but could be a pain point for someone else.

post #86 of 314

My Touch hardly ever give me problems, sometimes the wireless connection is not smooth, restarting the server usually fixes that. Very incidentally, f.i. after refreshing the whole library, I've to restart it.

Other then that, using the Touch is bliss, and I will never go back to a CDP, using a media PC also seems more hassle then my current setup.

I do not recognize that 'insanely buggy' at all; this gives potential buyers the wrong idea; while it is not as easy as a CDP, learning to master the Touch is not very difficult and gives more then ample reward IMO.

But there is a learning curve, definately. And the Touch claims to be able to play directly from a HD, I would not advice that to anyone; erratic and SQ suffers, compared to a wired or wireless PC.

 


Edited by dura - 7/2/11 at 4:42am
post #87 of 314

Tried Vortexbox as a server....its a No Go!!!!

 

You can not simply plug in your external hard drive full of music, find it and go.  Vortexbox has a predetermined path for music [only flac].  Nice idea but too much work by the user.

 

Instead I simply installed SB-Server in my existing Linux machine that had MPD and was off and running.

 

Update, after a few more days of going back-and-forth between the stock power supply and a linear/regulated supply I truly can not tell much of a difference.....maybe 2% of a difference, which I chalk up to imagination.


Edited by Dynobot - 7/3/11 at 5:54am
post #88 of 314
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dynobot View Post
Update, after a few more days of going back-and-forth between the stock power supply and a linear/regulated supply I truly can not tell much of a difference.....maybe 2% of a difference, which I chalk up to imagination.


Thanks for sharing that.

I read a about a very expensive linear PSU for the Touch that was reviewed by John Darko at his website (DigitalAudioReview.net.au) a few months ago.

He simply couldn't tell any difference via digital out and just barely via analog out.

I also read a review by Stereophile (as far as I remember) where the reviewer said he could not tell the difference with a linear PSU when going via digital out.

In a new review of another (and cheaper) linear PSU Darko claims to just hear the difference - but adding that this barely better sound was in the last 2% of the SQ.

This made me reconsider the idea of upgrading the PSU for the Touch, but after your comment I don't think I'll spend my money on this kind of upgrade.

If I used the Touch via the analog out, I wouldn't hesitate, but via digital out - forget it. That's at least my thinking now.

 


Edited by LarsHP - 7/4/11 at 3:20am
post #89 of 314
Power supply upgrades were much more important with the Squeezebox Classic. I have the Welborne pus from my sb3 and am using it for my Touch, but from what I have read, most cannot tell the difference.
post #90 of 314

I had a Russ Andrews power supply (not lineair); it did rather well on my Squeezebox Classic, cleaning up the sound (via digital out) considerably. On my Touch however, the difference with the supplied PS was -for me- undetectable so I sold the expensive PS.

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