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Alternatives to Eagle CAD

post #1 of 15
3/30/11 at 11:16pm
Thread Starter 

I'm looking for a free easy-to-use alternative to Eagle CAD with a good parts library [including audio parts such as DAC chips and other special chips that might not be found in the basic set of components].  My only concern with Eagle CAD is the limitations on the routing area on the free version [Light Edition] (and the over priced Standard Edition).  Both 3.937"x3.150" (100mm x 80mm) and 6.299"x3.937" (160mm x 100mm) routing area might be too small for a few of my projects I want to try.  (Some projects are audio related, and some are non-audio related).  I have a hard time learning (CAD, CAM, and) EDA software so I rather pick one EDA program and use it all the time [and not two programs and trying to learn them both].  I need it to be able to produce the files needed producing professionally done PCBs time to time.  (Sometimes I want my board to look pretty or just come out flawless).  I don't think I will ever go bigger than 12"x15" (305mm x 381mm) double layered for any project I would ever imagine doing.  Please help me out with some suggestions for EDA programs and some basic tutorials will help use them (if you can).

 

Thanks in advance.

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post #2 of 15
3/31/11 at 7:53am

There is a free linux program called PCB.

 

Edit: I found out there is a windows version too!

 

"PCB is an interactive printed circuit board editor for the X11 window system. PCB includes a rats nest feature, design rule checking, and can provide industry standard RS-274-X (Gerber), NC drill, and centroid data (X-Y data) output for use in the board fabrication and assembly process."

 

For the parts library: I even had to make some parts for simple projects in Eagle, so do not expect out of the box support to all components. You have to learn how to make a new one based on an existing pad layout or a component.

(I had to learn it too, and it's easy now)

I have PCB installed but I use Eagle. So I can not help You using it.

You can expect a vast amount of tutorials on the net for free software.

 

Features:

  • Up to 16 copper layer designs by default. By changing a compile time setting, this can be set as high as needed.
  • RS-274X (Gerber) output
  • NC Drill output
  • Centroid (X-Y) data output
  • Postscript and Encapsulated Postscript output
  • Autorouter
  • Trace optimizer
  • Rats nest
  • Design Rule Checker (DRC)
  • Connectivity verification
  • Pcb is Free Software
  • Can interoperate with free schematic capture tools such as gEDA and xcircuit
  • Runs under Linux, NetBSD, Solaris, and other similar operating systems.
  • Windows version is available

 

Oh, the source: http://pcb.gpleda.org/

 

Screenshoot:

PCB linux designer


Edited by earfanatic - 3/31/11 at 7:59am
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post #3 of 15
3/31/11 at 8:22am

KiCAD and gEDA are two free programs. I have only used them for schematic drawing, not layout, so I can't really comment on their capabilities but they might be worth looking into.

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post #4 of 15
3/31/11 at 9:01am

Diptrace is an option

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post #5 of 15
3/31/11 at 9:42am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltmute View Post

Diptrace is an option


The freeware version is limited to 300pins which might be limiting on the bigger projects.  Thanks.

 

 

Thanks for the other suggestions.  I'm looking into the first three right now (PCB, KiCAD, and gEDA).  I should of stated that I was on Windows 7 (64-bit) so it would have to be something that works with it.  (I don't mind running virtual machines if some programs run in linux only or runs better in linux [preferred distro is Fedora]).  PCB looks promising by how it's described.  Does KiCAD or gEDA have a similar feature set for drilling and PCB production?  What kind of parts where missing from PCB's default library? Is there third party libraries which you can download?  Is there a tutorial on how to make and add your own parts to the library?

 

 

P.S. Anyone have some tutorials to help figure out how to use these programs via basic projects from start to finish?  (YouTube video or well documented web tutorial with pictures would be nice).  I always play with these programs but after 15mins of not be able to get these things to work, I get frustrated and give up.  (It's more frustrating then using alternatives to AutoCAD when the only thing I have the knowledge of how to use is AutoCAD).

 

P.P.S. Looks like gEDA is linux only, I'll have to check it out later (after I setup a Fedora VM.  Is there any .rpm files that will work nicely with Fedora)?

 

P.P.P.S.  I might want to try a tube project or two, how hard would it be to add some tubes to the library?


Edited by TheKisho - 3/31/11 at 10:34am
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post #6 of 15
3/31/11 at 2:16pm

http://www.pcbartist.com/

 

I just downloaded this and have not got to play with it much but it seems to be pretty straight forward.  It also has tutorials.

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post #7 of 15
3/31/11 at 2:56pm
Thread Starter 

The limitation is I have to order from Advanced Circuits before they allow me to generate Gerber files with their program [PCB Artist].  They've done that so you have to order from them at least once before using somebody else's PCB production company.  I want to stay away from programs like this so I have choice of who is right to produce the PCBs for me.  

 

 

PCB seems promising so far but the library of parts are limited and I can only find the 1W resistors for resistors (and for some reason can only find SMT/SMD caps).  *Confused*

 

KiCAD seems alright for schematics but none of the parts I want come up when I do the PCB view, the library can find a 7400 IC on the schematic view but doesn't have one [in the library] for the PCB view or any parts really useful (the box just brings up unrelated parts).  *Even more confused*

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post #8 of 15
4/1/11 at 3:33am

As I already mentioned, You have to forget that You will find every single part in any of the above programs. Even Eagle had limited parts from Texas Instruments, although it has a dedicated texas selection.

You have to make a lot of parts for Your needs Yourself so this must not stop You use a software.

 

The software do not know if You have a jumper a trough hole resistor or a capacitor in the circuit. You need to check pin distance for lot's of parts. If You do that, You can find a component that can be placed on the PCB even if it is not the one You put in the circuit.

 

And if You make Your part library, then You only have to make parts once.


Edited by earfanatic - 4/1/11 at 3:36am
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post #9 of 15
4/1/11 at 11:49am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by earfanatic View Post

As I already mentioned, You have to forget that You will find every single part in any of the above programs. Even Eagle had limited parts from Texas Instruments, although it has a dedicated texas selection.


Well with Eagle CAD there is a lot of third party libraries you can add and use.  (It seems to have a lot of support from the community).  Still How do I make a part in PCB or in KiCAD?  Is it buried deep in the menu?

 

 

I'm have a hard time learning these programs without demonstrations.  It was the only way I became quite good at AutoCAD [with good demonstrations].  Other programs and things in life I can muddle through it and learn, but this is a bit different for me.

 

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean with the resistor or capacitor, jumper or through hole thing and the distance.  Are you saying the library changes it's results depending on where you want to place a component (even before you determined the final spot you are going to make it appear)?

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post #10 of 15
4/1/11 at 12:11pm

You generally have to specify that component type in the schematic capture and then that is brought forward to the PCB layout.

 

I think what he is referring to is that there are many, many variable that affect the footprint of a part.  For the program I use, there is about 20+ footprints for through-hole resistors.  They vary in the lead spacing between the holes and the width of the part (and that is not counting vertical mount footprints).  You can choose a footprint based upon a) your parts size or b) your design requirements.  Just because a part fits in a 5mm footprint, it may be more convenient to put into a 10mm footprint because you can avoid using a jumper or it makes routing much easier.

 

Designing a PCB is an art.  Even if you don't stick with Eagle, I would suggest you start with it.  Many, many people are used to it, and can provide help.  A Google on "Eagle PCB tutorial" comes back with enough hits that you should find one that suits your needs.

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post #11 of 15
4/1/11 at 9:02pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cobaltmute View Post

Designing a PCB is an art.  Even if you don't stick with Eagle, I would suggest you start with it.  Many, many people are used to it, and can provide help.  A Google on "Eagle PCB tutorial" comes back with enough hits that you should find one that suits your needs.

 

I can figure out how to get somethings done with Eagle CAD (schematic view only), but I find with CAD and CAM programs (and probably with EDA as well) your skills in one program doesn't transfer to any other program as everything is different (specially if you love to use the terminal in AutoCAD, no other programs understands those commands).  Sure if every EDA program worked like Eagle CAD things would be simpler, that or if Eagle CAD just did what I wanted for free.  Eagle CAD at least is the most documented program by users.  They have the best EDA program out there if they went to a pay what you can afford model I'm sure the people would pay it.

 

 

Designing a PCB is not hard, designing a PCB on the computer is a royal pain in the butt.  Making a really nice looking board or getting them professionally made kind of requires the use of EDA program.


Edited by TheKisho - 4/1/11 at 9:04pm
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post #12 of 15
4/2/11 at 12:35pm

What I was referring to is You can place a jumper to the schematics even if You solder a capacitor there if the pin distance is right for either of them. The program won't know it.

Anyway What You can do is place a part in Your chosen PCB designer with the same footprint You need. Don't care if it is called TLC5943 instead TLC5937.

 

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post #13 of 15
4/2/11 at 12:45pm

This is a tutorial to PCB

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post #14 of 15
4/2/11 at 12:56pm
Thread Starter 

Oh, okay I get it now.  Yah I was thinking about that [using parts with the same foot print].  Can I clone those items and rename it?  [In the library].  (So I don't confuse myself when I use a lot of parts).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by earfanatic View Post

This is a tutorial to PCB


Thanks for the tutorial I will be getting to this right away!

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post #15 of 15
4/2/11 at 11:37pm

I only use Eagle. But I checked the PCB library. (I have it installed on Ubuntu)

 

The library didn't offer copying, but it has .fp files arranged in folders as categories. I think it is referring to FootPrint.

Maybe there is an editor for theese. Anyway, it is a text file.

 

This is the file of a DIL18 socket:

 

# retain backwards compatibility to older versions of PKG_DIL
# which did not have 100,60,28 args
Element(0x00 "generic" "" "DIL 18" 220 100 3 100 0x00)
(
    Pin(50 50 60 28 "1" 0x101)
    Pin(50 150 60 28 "2" 0x01)
    Pin(50 250 60 28 "3" 0x01)
    Pin(50 350 60 28 "4" 0x01)
    Pin(50 450 60 28 "5" 0x01)
    Pin(50 550 60 28 "6" 0x01)
    Pin(50 650 60 28 "7" 0x01)
    Pin(50 750 60 28 "8" 0x01)
    Pin(50 850 60 28 "9" 0x01)
    Pin(350 850 60 28 "10" 0x01)
    Pin(350 750 60 28 "11" 0x01)
    Pin(350 650 60 28 "12" 0x01)
    Pin(350 550 60 28 "13" 0x01)
    Pin(350 450 60 28 "14" 0x01)
    Pin(350 350 60 28 "15" 0x01)
    Pin(350 250 60 28 "16" 0x01)
    Pin(350 150 60 28 "17" 0x01)
    Pin(350 50 60 28 "18" 0x01)
    ElementLine(0 0 0 900 10)
    ElementLine(0 900 400 900 10)
    ElementLine(400 900 400 0 10)
    ElementLine(0 0 150 0 10)
    ElementLine(250 0 400 0 10)
    ElementArc(200 0 50 50 0 180 10)
    Mark(50 50)
)

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