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Spectral Differences Between Lossless and MP3 256kbps

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

Ok, so i can't hear the difference even with my best equipment, but what are the differences?

 

I'm sure you can tell which is which, interestingly enough the MP3 does a very good job of maintaining the waveforms original integrity, the biggest difference is sound above 20khz is discarded, this does not matter because it is near impossible to hear above 20khz for people with GOOD hearing, most older adults can't hear past 18khz.

 

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Edited by yepimonfire - 3/28/11 at 10:43am
post #2 of 8

I definitely hear a difference from 128 bks to 256 on iTunes, and an even BIGGER difference on HiRes HD TRacks of about 900+bks. Much better separation and sound quality to my ear, even when I had basic speakers with no DAC. Now that I have an upgraded DAC and speakers, the difference is even more noticeable.

 

I once burned a CD with HD res files from HD tracks and when playing in my car, I heard a hugh difference, too.

post #3 of 8
I haven't done an in-car check, though I have been meaning to, but there is no question you can hear a difference between the hi-res and standard lossy rips. Not quite sure how you can compare with basic speakers and no DAC, though. There is a DAC in there somewhere! smily_headphones1.gif
post #4 of 8

It's usually pretty trivial to detect MP3 vs. uncompressed with the benefit of a wave editor, since the steep discarding of frequencies above 18K or so is usually a dead giveaway.

 

Telling the difference with ones ears, especially considering the quality of modern encoders, is significantly more difficult, even at 128kbps.

 

I'd bet money that using LAME 3.98 and 256kbps, you'd need to rely on one or two VERY specific passages of music, "killer samples", to get anything out of range of a coin flip on a DBT, regardless of the equipment you were using.  The technology is really that good, and the things MP3 will discard to make the extra room are really that imperceptable to mortal ears and brains.

 

At 128kbps, you'd have a better success rate, but I think people would be surprised at how often they wouldn't be able to tell one from the other.

 

In my experience most if not all of these very rare killer samples, interestingly enough, have been from very heavy, industrial-type music, things with lots of synthetic sounds and "buzzy" waveforms that give the encoders a run for their money.  Classical or other "organic" types of music, for lack of a better term, actually compress very well, and at higher bitrates are going to be audibly indiscernable from the source material to anyone without a Cool Edit Pro license.

post #5 of 8
Thread Starter 

i've always been able to hear a drastic difference between 128 and lossless. i can hear a difference all the way up to 192kbps, anything above 192kbps, even with the best equipment and the most revealing tracks i hear no difference what so ever. at higher bitrates the information discarded is information the brain itself discards, so you are really losing nothing.

post #6 of 8

My ears are nowhere near perfect, but more times than not I can tell the difference between 128 and 256.  Anything above that for me is moot. I can hear no difference.

post #7 of 8
between 128 and 256 there should be an audible difference. I'd say that if your music is 192 or higher, thats when it starts to get difficult to tell which is which. Even between 192 and 320 there is a difference, but I am not yet privy to it as my best pair of headphones ever owned are the monster turbines (now) and before I had the shure e3c's but everythign sounded so abysmal with those that I ended up never using them. I had them back in the "expensive name brand junk means its good" youthful days. I tried the bose in-ears and found the sound airy and lacking any "meat", then i tried the shures and found them much better and they were rather nice looking and for some stuff they sounded great. only when I played some of my lossy tracks of, say, system of a down and pink floyd and whatnot did I notice that there was 0 bass and the distortion was so defined on them that they made my music unlistenable.

Right now I am debating on one of 3 options: I can either get a sansa fuze and double my portable music storage space, get a bigger microSD card for use on my nexus one, or just convert my FLAC to 320kbps mp3 for on-the-go use, considering the nexus one's hardware isnt that sound centric anyways... rather torn between the decision, especially because i'm going to have to get a new phone in a couple years anyways if this tmobile thing goes through.
post #8 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by shrimants View Post

between 128 and 256 there should be an audible difference. I'd say that if your music is 192 or higher, thats when it starts to get difficult to tell which is which. Even between 192 and 320 there is a difference, but I am not yet privy to it as my best pair of headphones ever owned are the monster turbines (now) and before I had the shure e3c's but everythign sounded so abysmal with those that I ended up never using them. I had them back in the "expensive name brand junk means its good" youthful days. I tried the bose in-ears and found the sound airy and lacking any "meat", then i tried the shures and found them much better and they were rather nice looking and for some stuff they sounded great. only when I played some of my lossy tracks of, say, system of a down and pink floyd and whatnot did I notice that there was 0 bass and the distortion was so defined on them that they made my music unlistenable.

Right now I am debating on one of 3 options: I can either get a sansa fuze and double my portable music storage space, get a bigger microSD card for use on my nexus one, or just convert my FLAC to 320kbps mp3 for on-the-go use, considering the nexus one's hardware isnt that sound centric anyways... rather torn between the decision, especially because i'm going to have to get a new phone in a couple years anyways if this tmobile thing goes through.


it's really soley dependent on how good the DAC in the nexus is. a good way to test a DAC's integrity is to play low frequency (like 80hz and below) sine wave tones on it and see if it is able to reproduce a pure sine without harmonic distortion, the reason i say low frequency ones is because it is easier to hear the difference between the much higher harmonic distortion and the low frequencies in contrast, also playing high high test tones like 18khz and above is a good test because many bad DAC's will "ring" at the highest ones with subharmonic distortion.

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