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Superlux Express Train - Page 53

post #781 of 1021

Yes, C1/2/3/4 must be 1.33uF because those are treble peak point determining parts of filter. Resistors (R1/2/3/4) are used to apply amount of filtering (-10dB for example). L1/2/3/4 had something to do with feedback circuit, don`t remember anymore exactly but you do not need to change those.

HD-662F filter values are very different and NOT close to HD-681F MK3. I understand that you have no idea about electronics but please start reading, I gave all the info you need few posts back.

post #782 of 1021

Thank you for the explenation.

 

I read it a lot of times. I have been asking again and again because I was not sure about it and want to make it clear. You know what? I asked Frans which mod would be the best to the 662F and he wrote me that MKIII 681F. So I post here again because I had doubts.

 

Quote:

The 662F can use the same filter as the HD681F (bottom schematic on page 9) (click the link on the left)

Read more: http://diyah.boards.net/thread/137/superlux-hd681?page=5#ixzz2o9i4xg91

 

post #783 of 1021

Yes, HD-662F can use that filter but imho those filter values I gave are great, though, I haven`t tried HD-681F filter on HD-662F. 

But HD-681 & HD-662 series have treble peak in slightly different location (at least to my ears because HD-681 MKII filter affects HD-662F differently), so, I think those HD-662F filter values I gave should work better. Those values can be found @ rockgrotto forum where solderdude/frans were still active users and gave me advice about HD-662F filter.

Haven`t done any exact measurements but I find it perfect for my HD-662F ;) Anyway, choice is yours.


Edited by CoiL - 12/21/13 at 4:55pm
post #784 of 1021

Hi, IMA adding capacitors and electrical parts, is just a bad idea to these type of headphones, sure you can cut out certain frequencies, and alter the EQ...  we have a pair of old HD-681 Mod'ed by Steve Rothermel, designer of the Sason Speaker http://www.stereomojo.com/SasonReview.htm, and it is smooth as a baby's butt, no filter caps used at all. Why put a Band-Aid on it? First try thicker pads and foam inserts maybe two. Steve actually mods the driver itself in some cases, and the rear chamber... this is the proper way to change the sound IMA.   adding caps to an EVO would be just crazy. and the HD-662F is designed with a purpose, to be flat and accurate and hearing it all is important in the studio, this can is suburb for tracking, as all frequencies cut thru even when you are next to the drummer tracking.  bottom line is they work, put a 7506 bright can or an over bass muddled crap on a bass player next to the drummer, and he will keep telling you to turn the headphones up till you blow your head-amp up, or just put on a HD662F or HD-660, and he will look at you and smile... why didn't you give me these to begin with.  even the original 681 cuts thru better then a K240 on a keyboard player when tracking live.   Cheers Doyen AudioHipster Recording 

post #785 of 1021

AudiHipster, sorry but you seem not to be familiar with Fran`s mods, pad tests and measurements. Please read about those filter mods before you say it`s "band aid". Also can you explain why it is bad idea and crazy? Are you saying Frans is crazy? :D

Have you even tried those filter mods yourself? Something tells me you haven`t tried them.

About proper way to change sound - it`s subjective and dependant on each person personal audio beliefs. Imho applying Frans filter mod is only right way to make superlux cans shine to their finest potential with opportunity to adjust them to your own personal preference & hearing with changing filter values. For me inserting thicker foam inserts = adding "band-aid". It`s like throwing blanket over speakers beliving that it will affect only one frequency range - but it affects whole frequency range, in a bad way imo. Filter mod instead applies mostly on one certain range without "muffling" everything else. I have tried different pads (mainly because of comfort) and they didn`t make much difference. Ended up with making my own custom angled pads. Adding thicker foam or other material to front of driver made everything "muffled" and turned things to worse. Another bonus for hardware filter is that you don`t have to adjust EQ with every different source, just plug in (assuming there is no EQ applied or flat setting is used) and there it is - sound of bliss.

About HD-662F filter - it won`t change its flatness & accuracy, only highs sibilance is removed making overall sound much better and even more accurate & flat than it is as stock ;) 


Edited by CoiL - 12/23/13 at 11:28am
post #786 of 1021

CoiL, may I ask you some questions again? (Yes, again, you'll be having nightmares about me, haha)

 

Are your values shown below cutting bass too? I want only cut trebles.

 

r1 = r2 = 47 Ohm
r3 = r4 = 51 Ohm (56 Ohm if guitars and cymbals feel too bright)
C1 = C2 = C3 = C4 = 1.33uF (1uF // 330nF)
L1 = L2 = L3 = L4 = 470uH

 

And... can you explain me, what Frans had on his mind writing this?

Quote:
When the caps are increased in size the filter frequency lowers.
Do note that ithe frequency doesn't lower by a factor 1.33 if you increase the caps with a factor 1.33 but the filter frequency shifts with the SQRT of 1.33
post #787 of 1021

No, those values didn`t cut bass, at least to my ears. If anything, bass got maybe tinybit more "prominent" & tighter due to no sibilance highs.

 

I think what Frans meant was that 1.33uF caps value shifts the highs cut-off  peak point, not lowers frequency.


Edited by CoiL - 12/23/13 at 12:49pm
post #788 of 1021

Hey there, sorry... hopefully we don't have to be too politically correct, this is just my opinion, as we all have them, + or - it's all good,  the EVO is a great sounding headphone as it is... a filter mod would be crazy... IMA`, on this one. Anywho just the simple fact of taking the 669 pads and foam inserts and putting them on a 681 will make a difference everyone should be able to hear,, (and pad depth foam or shield in front or part of the driver is part of most all good headphone design) as a recording engineer this is just my preference, not to have a headphone, that purposely cuts or boosts frequencies with capacitors on a single driver headphone ...now i am sure the filter mods are great for  cutting sibilance and to cater to a certain genre, a lot of metal heads, find there is not many products that make "good" headphones or earbuds for heavy metal, the HD381F ear buds work good for this genre, and the bass boosting cans some of them are a joke.  of course just opinions of one hillbilly.

 

You are right i have not read much about mod filtering on a headphone, (have read the early 681 mod post) or try'd any filter mod s... what is way cool is that someone has taken the time to listen to these headphones, and design a filter mod for different drivers, Kudos... not an easy task.  Thanks 

 

  What i was really trying to express ...is there is a different way to change the way your headphone sounds, without electronic filtering, and these are things that make or break a headphone design, and of course you have to start with a quality good driver, and Superslutz has a few that are mod worthy,  i am no expert, but do have some friends that are... just looking at the Superlux drivers at first glance all the 50MM drivers look the same... but they are not, some are thinner some have two layers or part of the cone duel layered, anywho the rear chamber design is very important as well to a great sound. all i know is we have one original 681 that has no upper ear ripping sibilance at all, and no filter caps or anything like that, the rear chamber is way tricked out, have not opened it up would not do that unless needed repair, it also has thicker pads, Mogami quad wire direct to each driver, no current going thru the headband wire... and it would not surprise me if Rothermel mod'ed the driver as well... at any-rate... this 681 is unbelievable sounding...  All that being said, even thou i feel this is the proper way to design a great headphone, i did not want to imply electronic filtering mods was a bad idea, it would just be a bad idea to do on a great sounding headphone. IMA that should be ok to say...  now even in the control room, when you have a set of great speakers,  but your room is not letting you hear accurately, some engineers compensate with monitoring EQ to hear the true reference so nothing is canceled out, or overcompensated... to achieve a flat true reference.  so Sorry did not mean to discredit filtering mods... as they can help you create your personal listening  preference...  but was trying to say that all the slut cans sound different, a good thing, and some work really well the way they are for me for different reasons.  TMI Sorry:

 

 Ok here is the joke for the day maybe bring a Christmas smile : 

 

Political Correctness

  There's an annual contest at Griffith University in Australia, 
  for the most appropriate definition of a contemporary term.

  This year's term was:'Political Correctness'

  The winning student wrote:

  "Political correctness is a doctrine, fostered by a delusional, illogical minority,
  and rapidly promoted by mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition 
  that it is entirely possible to pick up a piece of **** by the clean end."

 

 Cheers Doyen 

post #789 of 1021

Really interested about your original HD-681 which has no highs sibilance, because I`m hearing more and more about those cases where they need no filter mod. Are those with littlebit brighter red rings than older batches?

Would be revealing to see inside of those cans build and find differences with old HD-681 "sibilance"-version.

post #790 of 1021

Hi There, the Steve Rothermel mod is on the 681 is the later edition color with the burgundy ring, (still have early edition a bright red ring original color, the ear pads are cracking, kind of like the feel of the pads) Steve also made me a 681 closed in the rear, he used a 662 and popped the drivers out replacing them with the 681,  this one gets used in the studio all the time, and i always get remarks wow this is a great sounding headphone.  anywho maybe i can get Rothermel to share some of his findings on the Superslut mod's. http://rothakoustic.com/Roth_Akoustic/Home.html ( not sure if he is still finding the time to mod these ) i will send him the post. Still waiting on the Closed 662 EVO, we heard the ones they had at the Namm show, was unbelievable, far as i know Superlux has not started production on them yet.  Cheers Doyen


Edited by AudioHipster - 12/26/13 at 5:54pm
post #791 of 1021

Thought about popping old HD-681 drivers to HD-662 cups too some time ago but then I started to build my own closed-back version, 100% wood (execpt drivers of course) and with detachable mini-xlr dual entry cabling etc. ;P This is a work-in-progress pic from 1st build I posted here some time ago: http://www.head-fi.org/t/546556/lightbox/post/9745255/id/918259 Working on new version with better build quality and design.


Edited by CoiL - 12/26/13 at 6:16pm
post #792 of 1021

You know what? I think the 662F are better in metal music. This tight bass adds more "power" into riffs and these sibilances aren't so nasty. I have -4 on E07K and they are ok while in the 681 I have -10 trebles and -4 bass and they are still very unfriendly to ears.

 

We will see how the MKIII mod will change the 681 and a mod with values that CoiL posted.

post #793 of 1021

Yes, you are right, HD-662F with filter is better in rock/metal music. Bass is tight and everything is very clean and instruments are nicely separated. 

But paired with Aune T1 + some nice tight-bass & kick tubes HD-681 with mkII mod is still more enjoyable with progressive metal/rock/jazz imo.

post #794 of 1021
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoiL View Post
 

Yes, C1/2/3/4 must be 1.33uF because those are treble peak point determining parts of filter. Resistors (R1/2/3/4) are used to apply amount of filtering (-10dB for example). L1/2/3/4 had something to do with feedback circuit, don`t remember anymore exactly but you do not need to change those.

HD-662F filter values are very different and NOT close to HD-681F MK3. I understand that you have no idea about electronics but please start reading, I gave all the info you need few posts back.

I am buying elements tommorow, I need to know how to obtain 1.33uF? What does 1uF//330nF mean? I found only 1uF capasitors.

 

Could you look at my basket posted below and confirm if all elements are ok?

http://i.imgur.com/d5o2D9P.png

 

It's interesting what you wrote. Most of my favorite songs is prog metal/rock, so the 681 with mod should be good.

 

But I think something wrong happened to my 681s - right can began to sound little quietly than left and I think sound is little worse. Maybe it's because of listening on 662F, but I'm not sure. Maybe something happened to 681s cable?

 

I am going to recable them anyway, but it would be disaster if they sound bad after recable and mod. I bought AKG K240 velours, going to make mod and recable. Lot of cash to me.

 

Is it really needed to recable in Y or | is enough? Is this cable which connects both cans really as bad as cable with jack connector?

And what about Superlux jack-to-jack? On polish board a few ppl say that the sound changed to better after buying new jack-to-jack (they told Superlux's seems strange light)


Edited by Zares - 12/29/13 at 4:29am
post #795 of 1021

// means parallel. You buy 1uF + 330nF and put them parallel in circuit.

 

Note that I`m talking about HD-681 mk2 mod not mk3. mk3 might have less bass and only mod doesn`t help with making it`s "loose" bass tighter. Like I told I have certain tubes with Aune T1 that make HD-681+mk2 sound great with progressive rock/metal (TOOL, Dead Letter Circus, Porcupine Tree, Karnivool, Tesseract, Tosin Abasi etc.).

Additionally I have made my own custom angled velour pads with "special" materials & construction which make bass tinybit tighter but leave the soundstage large. 

 

Your HD-681 element might be damaged/defective. Bad cable connection usually makes crackly sound but you are lucky if it`s only cable.

 

Y cable is imho better, more comfortable for me and depending on audio-belief, theoretically better than | cable.

 

Whats wrong with jack connectors? If they are quality product then they are great imo. 

 

What do you mean about jack-to-jack? 3.5 to 6.3 adapter? 


Edited by CoiL - 12/29/13 at 6:25am
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