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Rudistor realeased a new flagship amp - Page 10

post #136 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post

I actually had the SE535 with my b22 before I had it (the amp) send out for work. I never did plug it into the b22 though. I sold the Shure shortly after I received them and didn't think of it at the time. That said, there really isn't a one-size-fits-all amp that's perfect at everything. Ask the many members on Head-Fi that have multiple amps. :) It's also part of the reason I don't have the HE6. The way I have the b22 configured won't have it fully and perfectly drive every headphone to it's absolute potential. I suspect the uber expensive b22 build in this thread can't either.



A B22 should handle the SE535 fine. The susceptibility to hum is not good - low noise is a pretty basic requirement for an amp... Even if you can't hear it with less sensitive headphones, the noise is still there and could be seen on a scope.

 

I think that a B22 with a guarantee of no hum (even with very sensitive headphones) would be worth some premium, but it doesn't seem like the Bellatone B22 is guaranteed not to hum with the SE530/SE535.

 

 

post #137 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by MacedonianHero View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post

As mentioned earlier, too many things to change per board. I would just set the gain at 5x or 8x, then use a shunt and/or parallel setup for the pot and use a switch to select the resistor values. Parallel config with a low value resistors can get you fine control at low levels (but it will ramp up very quickly at high levels).
 
I realize that, I'm just saying regardless, there is likely a market for a new B22...say B23 that has enough gain to properly drive say the HE-6s all the way down to low impedance cans like Grados or Denons. I know I would be interested.

 

It's not a matter of gain but of volume control. A custom tuned stepped attenuator might be the answer rather than trying to jigger the internals of the amp. Standard linear pots or even "log" pots have poor control at the low end.

 

A pot in parallel config also changes the curve response of the pot, and using a switch to change the value of the parallel resistor can give you the control that you'd want depending on the headphones used.

 

post #138 of 170

This thread really jumped the shark when Spritzer said that you could get  $150,000, 700 pound Krell MRA monoblocks for the same price of PJ's Beta.

http://www.higherfi.com/amplist/amplist.htm

post #139 of 170

It would be easy to wire up a switchable fixed attenuator before the volume control and then you could go from very quiet to silly loud at the flick of a switch.  There are issues with this approach but there is a way to do it correctly. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Eddy View Post

Also, I'm curious. Were you as critical of the Pinnacle's $10,000 price tag?

 

se


Yes but I also know how silly expensive good transformers can be.  I also don't doubt Pete and Todd charge as much as they need to charge which I very much doubt is the case with this B22...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by scootermafia View Post

This thread really jumped the shark when Spritzer said that you could get  $150,000, 700 pound Krell MRA monoblocks for the same price of PJ's Beta.

http://www.higherfi.com/amplist/amplist.htm


You are aware that I was talking used prices?  The prices on these amps have plummeted on the used market, just look at the prices that the partnering Krell subwoofer goes for.  People are giving this stuff away.  Ditto for the KAS...

 

post #140 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by spritzer View Post

Yes but I also know how silly expensive good transformers can be.  I also don't doubt Pete and Todd charge as much as they need to charge which I very much doubt is the case with this B22...

 

Sure. But if we use the "rule of thumb" model, you're looking at $4,000 in parts cost. And I'm having a hard time seeing $4,000 worth of parts in the Pinnacle.

 

Quote:
I also don't doubt Pete and Todd charge as much as they need to charge which I very much doubt is the case with this B22...

 

Far as I'm aware, PJ hasn't even come up with a price for his B22.

 

se

 

 

 

 

post #141 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Armaegis View Post



 

It's not a matter of gain but of volume control. A custom tuned stepped attenuator might be the answer rather than trying to jigger the internals of the amp. Standard linear pots or even "log" pots have poor control at the low end.

 

A pot in parallel config also changes the curve response of the pot, and using a switch to change the value of the parallel resistor can give you the control that you'd want depending on the headphones used.

 


It's certainly not for a lack of power with the B22, but with the HE-6s, a gain factor of 5 (typical) is simply not enough to bring these orthos to adequate listening volumes. Again, I am not suggesting a change to the B22, but maybe a new product offering with user selectable gains...like on the Meier Concerto.
post #142 of 170

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 



"It's certainly not for a lack of power with the B22, but with the HE-6s, a gain factor of 5 (typical) is simply not enough to bring these orthos to adequate listening volumes. Again, I am not suggesting a change to the B22, but maybe a new product offering with user selectable gains...like on the Meier Concerto."


Remember that a gain of 5x on a 4 channel balanced b22 is equivalent to 10x on a SE 3 channel build. Also the balanced amp is twice as powerful. I've never tried the HE6 on the balanced beta but I've read such conflicting reports with both the SE and balanced amp that I'm not sure if the b22 is ultimately ideal for the hungry planar. Even if eaither the 3 or 4 channel amp could do the HE6 the justice it deserves then it would have to be configured in such a way so it wouldn't perform well with high efficiency headphones.

That said, with almost any other headphone I do believe, especially the balanced b22, can be set up to be very versatile with a wide array of cans without the need for a gain switch. I think it's more an issue with the HE6 than a deficiency with the b22 design. The HE6 is just a bear that doesn't allow for much else except huge amounts of power. Damn the practicality. LoL

post #143 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 



"It's certainly not for a lack of power with the B22, but with the HE-6s, a gain factor of 5 (typical) is simply not enough to bring these orthos to adequate listening volumes. Again, I am not suggesting a change to the B22, but maybe a new product offering with user selectable gains...like on the Meier Concerto."


Remember that a gain of 5x on a 4 channel balanced b22 is equivalent to 10x on a SE 3 channel build. Also the balanced amp is twice as powerful. I've never tried the HE6 on the balanced beta but I've read such conflicting reports with both the SE and balanced amp that I'm not sure if the b22 is ultimately ideal for the hungry planar. Even if eaither the 3 or 4 channel amp could do the HE6 the justice it deserves then it would have to be configured in such a way so it wouldn't perform well with high efficiency headphones.

That said, with almost any other headphone I do believe, especially the balanced b22, can be set up to be very versatile with a wide array of cans without the need for a gain switch. I think it's more an issue with the HE6 than a deficiency with the b22 design. The HE6 is just a bear that doesn't allow for much else except huge amounts of power. Damn the practicality. LoL


Good point, but wouldn't a balanced b22 be a bit too much for say 32 ohm headphones? I have only heard SE b22s.
post #144 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post

Also the balanced amp is twice as powerful.

 

Not twice. Four times.

 

se

 

 

post #145 of 170

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 




"Good point, but wouldn't a balanced b22 be a bit too much for say 32 ohm headphones? I have only heard SE b22s."


I don't know. Maybe someone can answer that. Say 2x gain on the balanced b22? Even so, I'm not sure 2x would suit the HE6. Even balanced.

post #146 of 170

Don't forget to consider source when thinking about gain. A 1Vrms source is very different from a 4Vrms source. 

post #147 of 170

Quote:Originally Posted by Steve Eddy 




"Not twice. Four times.
se"



So the balanced B22 puts out 72 watts @ 8Ohms?

post #148 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by baka1969 View Post

Quote:Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 

That said, with almost any other headphone I do believe, especially the balanced b22, can be set up to be very versatile with a wide array of cans without the need for a gain switch. I think it's more an issue with the HE6 than a deficiency with the b22 design. The HE6 is just a bear that doesn't allow for much else except huge amounts of power. Damn the practicality. LoL


The B22 can output 18W into 8 ohms unbalanced, and 50W into 8 ohms balanced, so it has plenty of power on tap for the HE-6 @ 50 ohms.

 

post #149 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by IPodPJ View Post




The B22 can output 18W into 8 ohms unbalanced, and 50W into 8 ohms balanced, so it has plenty of power on tap for the HE-6 @ 50 ohms.

 


Cool...thanks. Just a quick question, how many watts would that be into 50 ohms?
post #150 of 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by bcg27 View Post

Don't forget to consider source when thinking about gain. A 1Vrms source is very different from a 4Vrms source. 


Yes, but balanced outputs are typically just twice their unbalanced output. And when you double voltage, power quadruples.

 

se

 

 

 

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