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USB cable supposedly improving DAC sound quality? How can I take other posts seriously after that? - Page 15  

post #211 of 256

That's easy.  You conduct a double blind test! 
 

post #212 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griploc View Post

I am an experienced audio engineer and music producer and have been recording for over a decade. I think i have some merit here, if i didn't hear a difference i wouldn't say it. use your ears, not your specs.

 

May I ask how you do your music production then? Surely you must know what it is you're changing that affects the sound right? 

No one is saying you won't hear a difference. Question is, whether its the cable or just your brain, or maybe something else.


Edited by proton007 - 6/28/12 at 10:30pm
post #213 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindInOneEar View Post


I wonder.  Have you tried the "stock" USB cable with your Leica X1?  Does it make the photos worse than the cable that came with the Leica?


No,I didn't,... as the Fiio stock was clearly "not up to anything"!

Generally, this cable discussion is pointless and all the people who" listen" to graphs,specs etc. instead of trusting their own ears(how's that for pre conditioning one's brain)should perhaps stop invading those threads with their "anti attitude".

A good cable makes better music!

post #214 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversurfer616 View Post


No,I didn't,... as the Fiio stock was clearly "not up to anything"!

Generally, this cable discussion is pointless and all the people who" listen" to graphs,specs etc. instead of trusting their own ears(how's that for pre conditioning one's brain)should perhaps stop invading those threads with their "anti attitude".

A good cable makes better music!

 

While I agree to a degree remember what forum you are posting in atm.  Here both sides have a right to ask for evidence to support whatever claim the other is making.

post #215 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by silversurfer616 View Post


No,I didn't,... as the Fiio stock was clearly "not up to anything"!

Generally, this cable discussion is pointless and all the people who" listen" to graphs,specs etc. instead of trusting their own ears(how's that for pre conditioning one's brain)should perhaps stop invading those threads with their "anti attitude".

A good cable makes better music!

 

 

But this is the "Sound Science" forum.  Wouldn't science be advanced by at least making the experiment? 
 

 

Edited to make continuity clearer.


Edited by BlindInOneEar - 6/28/12 at 11:36pm
post #216 of 256
Ok, i will give you a long and detailed reason by a man that worked for senheisser in a couple hours. Two words why the sound changes for now-Vibration Control
post #217 of 256
Here is a detailed informative explanation as to why cables along side vibration control can up to triple your systems performance as well as sound quality.

As you might be aware I am a former Sennheiser Engineer and Stefan AudioArt is the oldest and first and only company to design true high-end cables for headphones and headphone systems. I can guarantee if your headphone system is setup properly (see details below) the performance of our cables will go far beyond all other aftermarket headphone cables available. All the other options offered are off the shelf designs, constructed in a DYI fashion, offering incomplete solutions to headphone improvement. Unfortunately many users have poorly setup headphone systems and cannot possible determine the difference.
 
All our headphone cables are built from "the ground up" with conductive surface formulas specific to the corresponding headphone which have gone through years of R&D before they were finalized. When I left Sennheiser, I had a choice as to which area of a headphone system I would improve upon and based on my 30+ years experience in audio and with much research I determined that a properly designed headphone cable and next headphone system cables (properly designed headphone and headphone system cables are very difficult to make and very expensive to produce which is why headphone manufacturers can not spend the time and money producing such) offered the biggest improvements.
 
Stefan AudioArt's internal cable designs and extensive connector modifications are beyond all the other "off the shelf " cables and connectors which are assembled in a DYI fashion by lesser manufacturers. These designs do offer better performance than the stock but fall short in comparison and in a properly assembled headphone system offer significantly better performance. You will hear the significant difference our cables make as their potential cannot be fully experienced if two very important areas - properly designed system cables and vibration control -  are not addressed.
 
The following steps were determined over years of R&D and are an example of the commitment we make to our customers and individuals who send us questions and don't necessarily make a purchase from us. These steps help them reach their goals and are designed to help save a considerable amount of time and money by introducing the best product solutions available which in most cases are very reasonably priced due to the extensive improvements they offer. We back up all our products with a 30/60 money back guarantee and will provide extensive an detailed help regardless of whether you purchase a product from us.
 
 
 
                                          -  Cost Effective Steps For True High-End Headphone System Performance  -
 
                                                                
Step 1:
 
Replace stock headphone cable with a Stefan AudioArt Audiophile or Ultra High-End Headphone Cable. A Stefan AudioArt designed upgrade headphone cable will offer the biggest improvement to the overall sound. It has taken our team of engineers many years to develop high-end headphone cables primarily using my experience as a former Sennheiser Engineer. The factor of why this is so is two fold - the manufacturer's stock headphone cable is very poorly designed and heavily degrades the sound of the headphone and the headphone cables we design are built from the ground up using a very meticulously construction process with every material used extensively treated with several proprietary procedures to yield absolute top performance from the headphone.
 
If you do not upgrade any other component in your existing system the Endorphin or E-Series will still offer a big improvement in the sound and every improvement thereafter will be experienced and thus be cost effective.
 
                                          Note: Steps 2 -4 should be applied to all the components in your system. 
 
Step 2:
 
Power cables. It was a surprise to me 12 years ago when I discovered that even very expensive power cables only marginally improve the sound quality. 
 
When looking for good cabling, one should pay very close attention to how the cable looks. A big thick cable (especially power cables) is the cable to avoid. Big thick cables incorporate a large amount of non-conductive material (dielectric) which absorb and pollute the music because this raises the resistance of the power signal. Connector which may look great (like jewelry) contain much more conductive and non-conductive surface area than necessary which again affect the signal, slowing it down and polluting the music. Look for cables with a simple design with the least amount of non-conductive material used on the cable and connector and ones where the conductive and non conductive surfaces of the cable and connectors have been treated to maximize the conductivity of the material.
 
There are only two that I can currently recommend after testing the dozens of power cables ranging from $200.00 to $5500.00 - all of which are designed to "look good" but fail to offer any real improvement - and this holds true for almost all power cables which is why they are over looked as far as a means of significant improvement in an audio system.
 
The Stefan AudioArt Endorphin Ribbon power cable and the Mapleshaderecords clearview power cables are the best options because they are designed properly and will make a big difference in the performance of the component - send me specific question if you like.
 
The Stefan AudioArt has designed an Umbilical Power Cable as well as the Wall Power Cable which optimize the performance of the ZD and BA and will significantly improve the overall performance particularly highlighting improvements in the bass and sound-stage when listening with headphones and is the best option:
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Headphone%20cable%20Zana%20Deux%20IC.html
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Endorphin%20IC%20for%20Balancing%20Act.html
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/EndorphinPowerCables.html
 
The Mapleshade Clearview:  

http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/products.asp?dept=91
 
is an excellent PC as well and even though it is not specifically designed for a headphone system - it sounds great except it will not improve the bass a sound-stage to the extent the Endorphin does.  
 
Most effective approach if your budget will not allow the replacement of all the power cables in your system (replacing all is necessary to achieve the desired goal) is to start with the source (CD player etc.) and them the headphone amp. or preamp. and then any other component in the system - no particular order after the source and preamp. is necessary
 
 
Step 3:
 
Vibration Control. I just want to add that I have used dozens of different high-end vibration control systems over the past 10 years as an individual and when I worked at Sennheiser costing up to $10,000.00. That said, no other system comes close to a system designed by Pierre Sperry of www.mapleshadesrecords.com.  - as he uses Brass and Maple (two very musical materials). Any material that touches a component and a cable affects the outcome of the sound - the best materials are maple and brass because these are materials which fine musical instruments are made of and which "tune" the component so it offers greatly improved sound. I have no affiliation with Perry but I have experimented with his system for years and it is the most effective 
 
Put a $75.00 18” x 15” x 2” MAPLESHADE PLATFORM under each component and under the mapleshade platform a set of 4 ($24.00) Isoblocks:  
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/products.asp?dept=49
 
http://www8.mailordercentral.com/mapleshade/products.asp?dept=1
 
Or better a 4"  MAPLESHADE PLATFORM to replace the above:
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=18X15X4-CL
   
Next 3 Micropoints bass weight (small) on top of component:
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/products.asp?dept=105  
 
Add MICROPOINT HEAVYFEET which you put under the each component to couple it the mapleshade platform see photo:
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=MPHFSET
 

Step 4:
 
Interconnects are last and the same rules apply to these as do the power cables - if the outer covering of the cable (dielectric) is thicker than a piece of paper then your getting "grunge" and "muddy" sound and this will be noticeable especially with the HD800's. Look over the SAA and Mapleshades sites for the detail:
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Endorphin%20Balanced%20Interconnect.html
 
http://shop.mapleshadestore.com/prodinfo.asp?number=ULTRATHIN
 
Applying properly designed cable and vibration control systems to every component in your system (including a laptop or PC) will bring you true high-end sound and I guarantee you will be overwhelming satisfied as I was and the many I have recommended this to have been.
 
I spend many hours at night per week sending out system recommendation emails like this one and an important and satisfying part of my business has evolved into educating serious listeners on how to get true high-end sound. I only design and recommend the absolute best solutions for headphones and headphone systems and guarantee these steps will be a life changing experience in terms of the quality of sound you will experience when these steps are put in place.
 
Take your time and carefully look over the above and ask me as many questions as you like. Also, remember that Internet is a wonderful resource but it can be very misleading as only a select few really understand high-end audio and how to make comparisons - and most comparisons are very inaccurate.
 
 
 
SAA System Suggestions:
 
For owners of the HD650, HD600 and HD580 headphones the following that in conjunction with upgrading the stock cable to the Stefan AudioArt E-Series or Endorphin will make a very significant difference in their overall performance
 
 - Simply remove the oval gray foam which covers each of the drivers inside the left and
   right earpieces.
 
 - Remove the grill and frame on the back of each earpiece. This grill and frame simply pulls
   off as one piece and can easily be reattached.
 
1) - To remove the internal oval gray foam which covers each of the drivers inside the left and right earpieces first remove the ear cushions that touch the head and go around the
ears by slowly pulling them straight out by the edge where they meet the driver assembly with your fingers. They can have a tight fit but are very durable so once you get it started keep firming pulling outward.
 
Once these are removed, the gray oval foam cover can simply be removed as it just "sit" over the driver.
 
2) - Remove the grill and frame on the back of each earpiece. This grill and frame simply pulls off as one piece and can easily be reattached.
 
The grill and the gray/silver frame (one piece) are press fit to each of the earpieces - driver frame assembly.
 
Push the pivoting L and R earpiece all the way outward and at the top where the HD650/600/580 rectangular label is then put your two fingers using your figure nails in the small gap where the grill frame meets the earpiece - driver frame assembly
 
Slowly push outward and this will start the separation between the two and then the grill will just simply pull off and can simply be fitted back on if necessary.
 
If you try these two simple modifications it will open up the sound-stage, improve the high frequencies and overall clarity in both HD650's and the HD600's headphones. We highly recommend you give this a try.
 
The following two procedures are the most cost effective way to get a very noticeable improvement in sound quality from your existing headphone/audio system:
 
1) Applying a $20.00 can of Caig Deoxit Gold G5 (Google for best price) to all the connectors in your system which include power, interconnect and speaker cable.
   
Note: a properly designed power cable and IC applied to all headphone system components will make a significant difference in sound-stage, bass performance along with and overall clarity and detail of the full spectrum of music. more info at:
 
http://www.stefanaudioart.com/Headphone%20Cables.html

2) Removing the static from your CD's and all the cables in your headphone/audio system with Ionoclast: 
 
http://www.mapleshaderecords.com/audioproducts/ionoclast.php
 
Both of the above procedures will lower the resistance in the signal transfer and surprising yield a more natural overall sound. These are the two most cost effective system treatments available.
 
Thanks and please let me know if you have any questions.
 
Kind regards,
 
James S Serdechny
Owner/Designer
www.stefanaudioart.com


 
 

 
 
post #218 of 256

Any chance you could provide some info on the audibility of the cable differences you have just stated?

post #219 of 256
You are more than welcome to contact James, he has more knowledge on the particulars than any others in the field
post #220 of 256
I will ask James to further detail the information on differences later on today and post his reply
post #221 of 256
From my experience so far a noticeable change in soundstage, tightness in bass, warmer midrange presence as well as airy hf content has been a major improvement with just a headphone cable upgrade and isoblocks under my apogee symphony io interface as well as my imac.
post #222 of 256

You don't have to convince me of such changes. I'm a believer ;). In the end all that matters is that you found your own truth. Others don't want to accept it and that's fine with me. My ears are happy though :P.
 

post #223 of 256
A usb upgrade is a crucial investment or thunderbolt cable as it is the only cable going to and from your computerto your audio interface.
post #224 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griploc View Post

I will ask James to further detail the information on differences later on today and post his reply

 

Can you please ask that the differences include statements of measurable differences on user end audio parameters (FR, Noise, Distortion, Channel balance, output levels and so on) , preferably backed with properly controlled blind tests - otherwise it is (with respect to this forum) just waffle and we get enough of that in the other subforums, thanks in advance. If the cabling does make such a big difference it will be trivial to objectively measure such differences.


Edited by nick_charles - 6/29/12 at 7:37am
post #225 of 256
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griploc View Post

Here is a detailed informative explanation as to why cables along side vibration control can up to triple your systems performance as well as sound quality.
<<snip>>
 

 

Amazingly. At no point in that entire post was any theory, measurement, or explanation provided for how, exactly their better cable design or vibration control improve sound. Or indeed any explanation other than "poorly designed cables" to show that the stock cables degrade sound. 

 

What nonsense. A step by step sales pitch of what to do to fix a "problem" that has not been demonstrated to be a problem, with a product that is not demonstrated (aside from his assurances) to fix this non-existent problem. 

 

 

Griploc - do you have a response to my answer yesterday regarding your challenge to go rent high quality cables, then say there no differences? 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by liamstrain View Post

 

Done. (Having been down this road in the past, and tried a variety of high-end cables, both USB and Interconnect). 

 

There was no difference. Now what? I also have worked as a recording engineer and have been involved in professional audio (either as performer or engineer) for two decades... Do we cancel each other out? How do we evaluate the merits of two opposite subjective claims? 

 

Without some objective measure - your statements and mine are just wind. Impressions without any useful context, and no control to know WHY a sound difference was heard. And if we do not know why, it is very hard to make meaningful suggestions on how to reproduce them. 

 
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