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Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 30

post #436 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

Um, a couple more comments:

 

1. Galvanic isolation? Like I said, of course we have that. I simply thought no competently designed, non-bus-powered device would be without it, so we never mentioned it. It's like saying your new lamp comes with a power cord. Duh.

 

2. Upgrades may not happen? Are you seriously arguing it's better to spend a lot more money on a DAC that's designed to be thrown away when tech changes, versus getting one that offers insane price/capability/value even without considering upgradability? It's not like Bifrost requires a second mortgage or something.


GAAAH, the more I hear about it, the more I want one :P

 

post #437 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benjamin6264 View Post




GAAAH, the more I hear about it, the more I want one :P

 


15 day trial period, no reason not to.
post #438 of 3320

The FAQ for Bifrost states:

 

 

Quote:
If you have a Windows desktop, most decent sound cards and many motherboards have SPDIF coax or optical.

 

If you search on this site there are claims that these more pedestrian SPDIF outputs are inferior to more purposeful sound-cards SPDIF outputs; but the above Schiit quote leads me to believe that even a motherboard or standard sound-card SPDIF is a better carrier than USB, correct?

 

All I've read on the difference between various USB and SPDIF sources has to do with clocking and jitter. Aren't these differences a moot point with asynch?

 

Basically, I just want to confirm that whatever SPDIF my Dell desktop has will be a better (and cheaper!) link to the Bifrost.

 

Or is a USB->SPDIF a better option?

 

Thanks headfi biggrin.gif

post #439 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxvla View Post



15 day trial period, no reason not to.


Me living in Canada makes things a bit harder. Plus, it might be a better choice for me to wait for the 2 other DAC's.

post #440 of 3320

Ha, I see we've been accused of "not knowing USB" by some USB mafia on another site, because, you know, "them old guys with their SPDIF canes don't understand the future."

 

So, to clear things up, here's a version of an email I just sent.

 

 

Experience with USB?
Not enough experience with USB? Ha! Our DAC would have been out a year ago if it wasn't for USB. We have investigated all the commercially available USB interfaces, including some very expensive licensed ones, and arrived at design that is one of the best, if not the best, out there. I mean, it's USB 2.0, not antique 1.1, it's async, it has separate crystal-controlled clocks for 44.1 and 48K multiples, it has galvanic isolation.

 

We put a ton of engineering time into USB. We know it's necessary for many customers. We simply aren't going to portray it as anything it isn't. We have no reason to. So if you buy our USB solution, you know you're getting one that's solidly engineered and done to the highest level we can possibly achieve today. It's not slapped-together or afterthought. And it sounds really nice. For USB.

 

And--unlike everyone else at or near this price point--it's upgradable, for when the technology changes. And yeah, you can speculate about whether or not upgrades will come, but, you know what? One thing is for sure: technology will change, and when it changes, you will throw away a non-upgradable DAC--or accept less than the state of the art performance.

 

SPDIF from computers is inferior?
And I'm unsure where you get this idea that SPDIF from computers is "inferior." Sure, there's variation in SPDIF output quality, but we're getting jitter rates from Apple TOSLINK and good PC soundcard coax that are not significantly different than what we get from a good transport.

 

So--I gotta ask: Maybe it's not a case of these "old dogs" not knowing USB, but maybe it's a case of these newfangled designers not knowing how to properly implement a SPDIF receiver? There are so many tricks beyond the datasheet implementation . . . and we've been doing them since the 80s. 

 

But we'll see. When Bifrost ships, judge for yourself.

 

Edited by Jason Stoddard - 7/9/11 at 7:08am
post #441 of 3320

Hello Jason,

 

if a very good SPDIF from a transport or a sound card is 100%, how do you rate your USB implementation and a toslink from a computer ?

 

Thanks.


Edited by pasgod - 7/9/11 at 7:19am
post #442 of 3320

Looking forward to hearing a Bifrost Jason. 

post #443 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

Ha, I see we've been accused of "not knowing USB" by some USB mafia on another site, because, you know, "them old guys with their SPDIF canes don't understand the future."

 

So, to clear things up, here's a version of an email I just sent.

 

 

Experience with USB?
Not enough experience with USB? Ha! Our DAC would have been out a year ago if it wasn't for USB. We have investigated all the commercially available USB interfaces, including some very expensive licensed ones, and arrived at design that is one of the best, if not the best, out there. I mean, it's USB 2.0, not antique 1.1, it's async, it has separate crystal-controlled clocks for 44.1 and 48K multiples, it has galvanic isolation.

 

We put a ton of engineering time into USB. We know it's necessary for many customers. We simply aren't going to portray it as anything it isn't. We have no reason to. So if you buy our USB solution, you know you're getting one that's solidly engineered and done to the highest level we can possibly achieve today. It's not slapped-together or afterthought. And it sounds really nice. For USB.

 

And--unlike everyone else at or near this price point--it's upgradable, for when the technology changes. And yeah, you can speculate about whether or not upgrades will come, but, you know what? One thing is for sure: technology will change, and when it changes, you will throw away a non-upgradable DAC--or accept less than the state of the art performance.

 

SPDIF from computers is inferior?
And I'm unsure where you get this idea that SPDIF from computers is "inferior." Sure, there's variation in SPDIF output quality, but we're getting jitter rates from Apple TOSLINK and good PC soundcard coax that are not significantly different than what we get from a good transport.

 

So--I gotta ask: Maybe it's not a case of these "old dogs" not knowing USB, but maybe it's a case of these newfangled designers not knowing how to properly implement a SPDIF receiver? There are so many tricks beyond the datasheet implementation . . . and we've been doing them since the 80s. 

 

But we'll see. When Bifrost ships, judge for yourself.

 

Good words Jason so true
post #444 of 3320
I bought a Bifrost over the new Eastern Electric MKII due to Eastern Electric still using opamps in their DAC at 1050.00 dollars the BiFrost is a real deal
post #445 of 3320

Jason, one more question. There's no a lot of informations about this AKM4399 and we only know that it it's used in Cary Xciter and some Esoteric thing, but I bet not a lot of people had privilege to listen this units. Why did you choose it and what's the sound signature? Diy you compare against something? I don't like Wolfson, but I have to ask this question - why not wolfson since everybody is using it!

post #446 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by nsk1 View Post

Jason, one more question. There's no a lot of informations about this AKM4399 and we only know that it it's used in Cary Xciter and some Esoteric thing, but I bet not a lot of people had privilege to listen this units. Why did you choose it and what's the sound signature? Diy you compare against something? I don't like Wolfson, but I have to ask this question - why not wolfson since everybody is using it!



Hmmm...maybe because everybody's using it. ;)

 

 

post #447 of 3320

One of the huge advantages of an upgradable DAC is that it's easy to build up a ton of 2.5 x 4" DAC/Analog boards and swap them in and out. Yep, we've tried all the major chipsets. In this implementation, AKM gave the best sonic performance and some of the best measured performance. 

post #448 of 3320

Just another data point...

The current DAC I have sounds really great to my ears, even using the USB interface.  I have a bunch of MAC gear and they have TOSLINK out, as well as USB.  The one exception is my MacBook Air.  It has no TOSLINK output, just USB.  I did an experiment using many high bit rate FLAC files from HDTracks.  Playback sounds awesome through USB on all my Macs, but it sounds even BETTER using TOSLINK!  This is just my experience, your mileage may vary.   

post #449 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by kwkarth View Post

Just another data point...

The current DAC I have sounds really great to my ears, even using the USB interface.  I have a bunch of MAC gear and they have TOSLINK out, as well as USB.  The one exception is my MacBook Air.  It has no TOSLINK output, just USB.  I did an experiment using many high bit rate FLAC files from HDTracks.  Playback sounds awesome through USB on all my Macs, but it sounds even BETTER using TOSLINK!  This is just my experience, your mileage may vary.   


Wow Kwkarth you are the first mac user I have heard say that about toslink most whine saying that USB sounds better because of the supposed high jitter rate of the Mac toslink implementation nice to hear...
post #450 of 3320

FWIW, I've been saying for a while that my Mac TOSLINK sounds better than the USB from the same.  

 

Just another data point.

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