or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 222

post #3316 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by BruinAnteater View Post
 

Hope I am not too late. I did the A/Bing over the weekend. Overall the differences were so negligible that, if you said the differences were all in my head, I wouldn't argue with you. So here are my (quite possibly strictly psychological) impressions now that I have more experience with USB vs Optical/Coax:

 

1) Keep in mind that due to how the EMU-1212m works (my optical/coax source), I must lock it at a certain sample rate/bit depth, I chose 96/24, so if its not 96/24, JRiver resamples it on the fly

2) On tracks that are below 96/24, I felt that the USB in native sounded a lil less harsh than the Optical locked at 96/24.

3) On tracks that were at 96/24 exactly, the optical might have sounded a little cleaner.

4) On tracks were above 192/24, I could tell no difference between the downsampled Optical vs native USB 192/24.

 

So, if you have an optical/coax out that is capable of changing between different sample rates (vs something that MUST be locked to a sample rate/bit depth like the EMu), and especially if your optical/coax can do 192/24 and you were limited on funds, DEFINITELY get the Uber Analog upgrade over the USB. In fact, do this anyway. I never heard the Bifrost w/o the Uber stage but from what I've read, its the upgrade that really makes the Bifrost sing. The USB is worth it if it's the only way you have to connect the Bifrost. If optical/coax is an option and you only have the cash to spend on one upgrade, do the Uber! You can  always do the USB upgrade later is you're really curious, its easy as pie to do yourself.


Thanks for that info BruinAnteater. That helps alot. That is most likely what I will order, the Uber w/o usb. My dilema now is that a friend recommended another DAC, the SimAudio Moon 100D. 350 @ MD. Still researching, but leaning towards the Schiit...BTW, I'll be using mostly Macs for source.

post #3317 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytee61 View Post
 


Thanks for that info BruinAnteater. That helps alot. That is most likely what I will order, the Uber w/o usb. My dilema now is that a friend recommended another DAC, the SimAudio Moon 100D. 350 @ MD. Still researching, but leaning towards the Schiit...BTW, I'll be using mostly Macs for source.

The great thing about Schiit products is that they have a 15-Day open return policy. Best thing to do is to try out both DACs if you can. Can your friend let you borrow his SimAudio? If so, they it would be really simply to just order the Schiit and return it if  you like the Sim better.

 

I also found the Bifrost to be awesome right out of the box. I generally don't believe in 'break-in' periods for equipment that doesn't have physical moving parts (ie. I believe that speakers and headphones do 'break-in,' but amps and DACs don't). That's not to say I don't notice changes as I use electronic equipment, but I think what is getting broken in with things like DACs and amps is my brain: the brain is basically learning and acclimating to a new sound signature, so what was once a new and strange new sound, becomes the norm and becomes what the brain expects to hear as 'good sound.'

 

Whether stuff like DACs break in, or whether its my brain thats really getting broken in, the Bifrost sounded awesome right out of the box, as if it was already broken in: I basically fell in love with it on the first listen. So you could probably make a quick evaluation as to what sounds best to you.

 

As far as your source is concerned, do you know what sample rates it can output? If it covers all the bases, then you really only need to concern yourself with the quality of your music files. Ideally, a digital out should just pass 1s and 0s and your DAC should be doing all the work, so your optical out should be just fine! Let me know what you decide to go with and how you like it!

post #3318 of 3336

I saw that deal on the SimAudio 100D too. I know their 300D gets rave reviews but then it is a $2500 dac. But the 100D is interesting at that price.

post #3319 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by HPiper View Post

I saw that deal on the SimAudio 100D too. I know their 300D gets rave reviews but then it is a $2500 dac. But the 100D is interesting at that price.

Yes very interesting. And the same price as a non-uber, non usb bifrost. Decisions-Decisions. This is tuff. Anyone have any insight they can offer? My setup is imac>dac>speedballed crack>hd650. I will be ordering one or the other by weeks end. Thanks
Edited by jaytee61 - 3/11/14 at 8:47am
post #3320 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytee61 View Post


Yes very interesting. And the same price as a non-uber, non usb bifrost. Decisions-Decisions. This is tuff. Anyone have any insight they can offer? I will be ordering one or the other by weeks end. Thanks

 

wow, the SimAudio 100D can only do 16-bits/48Khz over USB?

no thanks.

 

SimAudio tries to "talk the user" into using S/PDIF or another input instead because they can't deliver high-res USB for audio?

despite many others in the industry (Schiit, Resonessence, CEntrance) having utilized USB so successfully....

hurm.

post #3321 of 3336

Schiit!

 

No multibit upgrades for Gungnir nor Bifrost yet!

 

Best regards,

 

Roberto

post #3322 of 3336
Ya...gonna be quite a while. Don't hold your breath.
post #3323 of 3336
Hey guys, trying to find a warm tube amp and dac for my dt990 pro and hd600. Currently I am using o2 amp and the sound is too bright. If I change to schiit lyr+bifrost, will that match? Will it be warm? Or I can swap to littledot mk4+bifrost?
post #3324 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by rivon View Post
 

Schiit! No multibit upgrades for Gungnir nor Bifrost yet! Best regards, Roberto

@rivon - gungnir multibit upgrades available!

post #3325 of 3336

Yess!!!!

 

Best regards,

 

Roberto

post #3326 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by judmarc View Post
 

Don't know how many of you are in a similar situation to mine, which is that I've been an audiophile for more than 30 years, have had much of my current equipment for around 20 years, and just fairly recently have begun to explore computers as audio sources.  I have a 20 year old DAC that was a pretty fair piece of equipment for its day, but it is limited to 16/44.1 or 16/48 resolution.  So when the designer of my old DAC (Mike Moffat) came out with a new one that could handle resolutions up to 24/192 at a very nice price point, I was interested, and soon ordered one.  There's a 15-day money back guarantee, so the focus of my early listening has been to compare my older DAC to the Bifrost on 16/44.1 CD rips, which makes up virtually all of what I listen to these days.  If anyone here has an older DAC and is considering the Bifrost, perhaps you'll be interested in my early listening impressions so far.

 

Details of my setup are in my sig.  All listening was done with the Audirvana Plus audiophile player for Mac.

 

24 hours:

 

Still burning in and had only the briefest of listening opportunities Thursday night, then a bit longer session last night.

The USB input sounds better (clearer, hear more of the recording) than the optical input. Not light years difference, but noticeable. Both sound better than coax input through the V-Link.

 

Comparison with the Theta so far is interesting. Bifrost is so clear and unadorned that on some very plainly produced music it is almost in-your-face raw. For instance, on Silver Dagger from Gillian Welch's latest, The Harrow and The Harvest, there are two points - one where a harmonica enters and another where Welch gives a kind of "Hoo!" call - where the suddenness of the attack through the Bifrost is absolutely startling. Welch's voice is so plainly and clearly rendered it seems as if she's in the room singing, no mic, no amp.

 

The Theta, on the other hand, makes things (including Gillian's voice) sound prettier. But though the Theta is no slouch as far as clarity, there isn't quite the same absolute immediacy as with the Bifrost.

 

The sound of the Bifrost does seem to be getting more full and musical as it burns in, so I'll be very interested to see how it compares to the Theta once it has 100 hours or so of playing time.

 

80 hours:

 

Now after about 80 hours (should have been 96, but forgot to reconnect wall power for MacBook so battery ran down) the clarity and immediacy are still there. What's improved:

 

- Sound is far more full. When plugged in for the very first time there was a bit of a thin quality. That's completely gone.

 

- Sound is more integrated into a whole. In early listening there were individual instruments in a high, wide soundstage, but that soundstage wasn't a completely seamless illusion of musicians in a space, and it wasn't always evident how instruments were playing off each other. Now not just individual instrument locations and parts, but also the interplay between band members (e.g., of Alison Krauss's terrific band on Paper Airplane) is clear in the context of a full, solid soundstage.

 

- Sound is more musical. The beauty of Alison Krauss's voice is all there, while losing none of its clarity. My wife preferred the Theta at 48 hours because of its musicality. Now she prefers the Bifrost, and I agree. For $450, that's an accomplishment. Yes, the Theta is 20 years older. But it was a $2000 piece when purchased, then had an $800 upgrade. Even apart from the digital components, for which 20 years is an eon, there was a lot of analog goodness bought by that $2800, and the Theta heard by itself still sounds lovely. In spite of the years between them, for a unit 1/6 the price by the same designer to be so clearly superior does surprise me.

 

Frankly, I'm finding little or nothing to criticize in the Bifrost's sound, which is somewhat remarkable to me considering its price, the fact that it is still not completely burned in, and reasonably revealing associated equipment. Now I'm very much looking forward to beginning to explore some 24/96 material I've bought on DVD-A, as well as some high res downloads.

 

 

 


Okay, so I'm a little late to the party.

 

I just received by Bifrost non-Uber and now have about 75 hours on it.

 

My experience exactly mirrors what Judmarc has stated except he did a far better job than I ever could.

 

Thanks, Judmarc.

post #3327 of 3336
Reviving an old thread with a very relevant update.

Jason released that there would be a multibit Bifrost upgrade in his blog.

Discuss smily_headphones1.gif

Personally I'm excited that they are bringing multibit to their lineup of DACs minus the Modi. Jason's latest chapter in his blog explains alot of their motivation behind development, implementation of their affordable R2R multibit DAC and bringing it to market.
post #3328 of 3336

Now if only the bifrost would stack with the MJ2!

post #3329 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJs06 View Post

Reviving an old thread with a very relevant update.

Jason released that there would be a multibit Bifrost upgrade in his blog.

Discuss smily_headphones1.gif

Personally I'm excited that they are bringing multibit to their lineup of DACs minus the Modi. Jason's latest chapter in his blog explains alot of their motivation behind development, implementation of their affordable R2R multibit DAC and bringing it to market.

Price analysis, the multi-bit upgrade should require half the number of parts as the Gungnir version, yes? So halve the $500 upgrade price and you get $250. I am sure its not exactly that though, so lets go with them setting a price of $200 for it on a unit from factory or a $300 user send in upgrade price. I think that would put everything at about $719 for a new fully stocked unit. That would still be very interesting and competitive with the DAC's that the BiFrost Uber has already been compared to in the past.

post #3330 of 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by kenman345 View Post
 

Price analysis, the multi-bit upgrade should require half the number of parts as the Gungnir version, yes? So halve the $500 upgrade price and you get $250. I am sure its not exactly that though, so lets go with them setting a price of $200 for it on a unit from factory or a $300 user send in upgrade price. I think that would put everything at about $719 for a new fully stocked unit. That would still be very interesting and competitive with the DAC's that the BiFrost Uber has already been compared to in the past.

How difficult have the previous Bifrost upgrades been? I bought my Uberfrost with USB from the factory. I've never tried to open it up.

 

On second thought, I don't think we'll be able to upgrade to multi-bit on our own. The Gungnir upgrade required people to send it back to the factory because there was a programable upgrade as part of the process, and only one shop here in the states (and one in Europe) with the computer and program. So does that up your estimate to $300? I think I'm okay with the cost :o 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Dedicated Source Components
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Dedicated Source Components › Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread.