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Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 221

post #3301 of 3320

How is no one talking about the Yggdrasil?

 

http://schiit.com/ragnarok-yggdrasil.pdf

post #3302 of 3320

Been plenty of discussion in the Schiit owners thread:

http://www.head-fi.org/t/601151/schiit-owners-unite/2310

post #3303 of 3320
Double post, ooops!
Edited by mangler - 6/13/13 at 6:40pm
post #3304 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by mangler View Post

Is Ragnarok a balanced amp that also has TRS outs (like Liquid Gold) or an unbalanced amp that has XLR outs (like Liquid Glass)? I think it's probably balanced because it has the same circlotron-style output topology as Mjolnir, but can anybody confirm this?

It's a balanced amp that also has TRS outs.

post #3305 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by judmarc View Post

..............Finally: Almost no DACs, includind Bifrost and Gungnir, are "bit perfect" through the D/A conversion stage. Nearly all of them have DAC chips that send the signal through a series of 2x upsampling steps to get to the 8x rates (352.8/384kHz) where D/A conversion is usually done. Although 2x upsampling just sounds like multiplication and therefore capable of being done exactly, it actually involves more complex math called Fourier transforms and cannot be done with exact accuracy. So depending on the algorithm that's used, using good player software like the iZotope software bundled with Audirvana to upsample to the max 192kHz input may actually give a more accurate final result than just leaving the signal bit perfect all the way to the DAC input.

Not saying everyone should start upsampling, just don't get too "religious" about bit perfect - listen to both if you have a chance and see what you like.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

 

Actually, it can. True closed-form digital filters are possible. Stay tuned.

Are these the same filters that are used to correct aliasing?

 

I just had a four hour conversation over dinner with Brian Zolner at the Capital Audiofest. If Mike & Jason have come up with a way to perform conversion without introducing artifacts, anomalies, & errors………..

 

………well, let us just say the entire industry is about to be turned upside down, inside out & seven ways from two.


Edited by wkhanna - 7/30/13 at 9:43am
post #3306 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by wkhanna View Post

………well, let us just say the entire industry is about to be turned upside down, inside out & seven ways from two.

 

Wouldn't that be "the Schiit's going to hit the fan!?"  Just saying.

 

It was a BLAST hanging out with Brian over dinner, really nice guy and has some great ideas on DACs.  The M1 he makes is awesome.... but the price is at a level that I'm not quite ready to go to.  If the new Statement is even close to something like that and a more likeable price.... well I'm ready to order!  beerchug.gif

post #3307 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by PewterTA View Post

 

Wouldn't that be "the Schiit's going to hit the fan!?"  Just saying.

 

It was a BLAST hanging out with Brian over dinner, really nice guy and has some great ideas on DACs.  The M1 he makes is awesome.... but the price is at a level that I'm not quite ready to go to.  If the new Statement is even close to something like that and a more likeable price.... well I'm ready to order!  beerchug.gif

 

The M1 seems to be at a similar price point as the Gungir. I hate to say it, but the Yggdrasil is going to be $1700-1900.  at a lower price tag I would take a serious look at the Bifrost.  It love mine and I haven't gotten around to the Uber upgrade yet.  Stereophile gave it a great review and considered it one of the best "bang for the buck" products they have ever tested.  With the upgrade potential in the future it really could be an "endgame" DAC for people who aren't looking to put together multi-thousand dollar systems.    

 

http://www.head-fi.org/t/667711/new-schiit-ragnarok-and-yggdrasil

post #3308 of 3320

Brian Zolner is of Bricasti Design, his Bricasti M1 is $8,595.... wink_face.gif

 

Having heard it.... it's basically a DAC I would never feel the need to upgrade.  Which is why I'm saying if the Statement is close to that (or even in the realm) I'll save myself some money and get it and put the money "saved" towards my new Pre and possibly amps (Classe CP-800 & CA-M600s).


Edited by PewterTA - 8/2/13 at 5:33pm
post #3309 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by PewterTA View Post

Brian Zolner is of Bricasti Design, his Bricasti M1 is $8,595.... wink_face.gif

 

Having heard it.... it's basically a DAC I would never feel the need to upgrade.  Which is why I'm saying if the Statement is close to that (or even in the realm) I'll save myself some money and get it and put the money "saved" towards my new Pre and possibly amps (Classe CP-800 & CA-M600s).

He mixed up the Musical Fidelity M1 with the Bricasti M1.

post #3310 of 3320

Oh, no. I bought a new computer and now I have that click sound from the dac again. Click every time I click back and forth from any folders. How do I fix this?

post #3311 of 3320

Schiit just released a DSD dac called Loki for $149....

post #3312 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by erselhickeyfan View Post
 

I have the Bifrost and have the clicking problem. The connection is coax from CD player.

It occurs between tracks. The player is also a 6 disc carousel and it will click continuously

if I hit pause - and doesn't stop until I resume play.  I was in contact with Jason Stoddard

at Schiit and here's what he said...

"Yep, if the CD player interrupts the data stream, Bifrost will click. That's the muting relay, doing its job."

cleardot.gif

 " Bifrost's mute activates every time there's an interruption in the data stream. Some CD players have constant, repetitive interruption when in pause. The only real solution is to use a different player or computer source, I'm afraid."

So, what seems like a real design flaw is apparently 'Working As Designed'.

It's not a design flaw it's a design feature. It's a high end device design, which means it makes certain asumption about what you connect it to also properly made. The muting relay is a feature which makes the device better, they had to make a choice between making it operate noislessly no matter what you do or have increased performace when it is used properly. It's hifi, so only one of those is really an option.

 

You can't damage the quality of the device to account for bad design on the part of another component. Even if they had chosen to sacrifice performance to fix these problems when certain bad components are used there would still be problems with other bad components. You have to make a decision as to how much you will try to fix other component's bad design, if you try to do it for absolutely eveything that includes people hooking it up to a lightening rod. There are infinte possibilities for bad design and you can't expect them to account for them all. There's a million ways to do something badly and only a handul of ways to do it well, schitt have assumed the equipment being used is of a comparable quality and has been designed with a similar high quality in mind.

post #3313 of 3320

Just did the USB Upgrade to my UberBifrost myself (taking the last screw off the case was the hardest part, really)! I was running the UberBifrost off the optical fed from the E-Mu 1212m Optical Out. I absolutely LOVED the sound of the Uber-Bifrost then, but got the USB upgrade for two reasons:

 

a) when I got the Uber-Bifrost originally, I actually DIDN'T know that the E-MU 1212m's optical and Coax out were limited to 96/24. I have a lot of 192/24 files, so I had to downsample those on the fly.

b) Unfortunately, with the E-MU 1212m's Patchmix board, you have to set up a listening/switch a session for EACH sample rate/bit depth. So I could either pause listening every time I played a song with a different sample rate, or I just set up ONE Patchmix session and let JRiver Up/Downsmaple all my songs.

 

Dunno how big of a difference this makes on the Bifrost. What I do know is that as far as my mobile set up was concerned, I found my HRT microstreamer to have tiny bit better over all performance on everything up to and including 96/24 files over the X3 (I used the X3 as a DAP and DAC); but when it came to 192/24, the X3 was able to play these files in their native form, while the HRT had to downsample them and the X3 sounded much better then. So I figured the USB upgrade was worth it on the Bifrost, since it would allow me to play everything in its native format.

 

Thus far, I havent A/B'ed the difference between USB Bifrost playing 96/24 vs Optical, or USB playing 44/16 native vs Optical upsampled, or USB playing 192/24 native vs Optical downsampled.

 

For those of you who have ran the Bifrost in both USB and Optical/Coax mode, which do you preferer, SQ wise?

post #3314 of 3320
"Thus far, I havent A/B'ed the difference between USB Bifrost playing 96/24 vs Optical, or USB playing 44/16 native vs Optical upsampled, or USB playing 192/24 native vs Optical downsampled.
For those of you who have ran the Bifrost in both USB and Optical/Coax mode, which do you preferer, SQ wise?"




Bruinanteater,
I'd like to know this as well as I'm about ready to buy a Bifrost and am unsure whether or not I should spring for the usb.
Edited by jaytee61 - 3/6/14 at 7:56pm
post #3315 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytee61 View Post

"Thus far, I havent A/B'ed the difference between USB Bifrost playing 96/24 vs Optical, or USB playing 44/16 native vs Optical upsampled, or USB playing 192/24 native vs Optical downsampled.
For those of you who have ran the Bifrost in both USB and Optical/Coax mode, which do you preferer, SQ wise?"




Bruinanteater,
I'd like to know this as well as I'm about ready to buy a Bifrost and am unsure whether or not I should spring for the usb.

Hope I am not too late. I did the A/Bing over the weekend. Overall the differences were so negligible that, if you said the differences were all in my head, I wouldn't argue with you. So here are my (quite possibly strictly psychological) impressions now that I have more experience with USB vs Optical/Coax:

 

1) Keep in mind that due to how the EMU-1212m works (my optical/coax source), I must lock it at a certain sample rate/bit depth, I chose 96/24, so if its not 96/24, JRiver resamples it on the fly

2) On tracks that are below 96/24, I felt that the USB in native sounded a lil less harsh than the Optical locked at 96/24.

3) On tracks that were at 96/24 exactly, the optical might have sounded a little cleaner.

4) On tracks were above 192/24, I could tell no difference between the downsampled Optical vs native USB 192/24.

 

So, if you have an optical/coax out that is capable of changing between different sample rates (vs something that MUST be locked to a sample rate/bit depth like the EMu), and especially if your optical/coax can do 192/24 and you were limited on funds, DEFINITELY get the Uber Analog upgrade over the USB. In fact, do this anyway. I never heard the Bifrost w/o the Uber stage but from what I've read, its the upgrade that really makes the Bifrost sing. The USB is worth it if it's the only way you have to connect the Bifrost. If optical/coax is an option and you only have the cash to spend on one upgrade, do the Uber! You can  always do the USB upgrade later is you're really curious, its easy as pie to do yourself.

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