Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 116

By the way, I'm getting a CTH!

Quote:

Originally Posted by sphinxvc 

Question for you owners: do the words natural, non-digital, and analogue come to mind when listening to this; or is it far from that?

I think so.  Analogue means different things to different people though so I'll avoid that.  Specifically those ignorant enough to link it to distortion.

Definitely sounds natural to me.

I agree with Anaxilus' comment.

I would guess that you need to have the DAC connected to the amp to place a load on the line out amp circuitry when burning in. No need for headphones though. And music playing into the DAC. 

What do others think?

I think "burn in" only applies to moving components.  Since DAC's to my knowledge have no moving parts, burn in does not happen.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremer930 

I would guess that you need to have the DAC connected to the amp to place a load on the line out amp circuitry when burning in. No need for headphones though. And music playing into the DAC. 

 

What do others think?

Sonic changes - what we're generally referring to when we say 'burn in" does occur in devices with capacitors in the output. It seems they need some time to 'bake' or 'settle' (time + heat) to fall completely in line with their design curve. The amount of time needed seems to vary based on the materials used in the capacitor. This at least, is my understanding of what's going on. Whatever it is, there's a noticeable change (improvement) with Bifrost when you hit > hours. 

Ok. So we now have an opportunity to not drag this Bifrost info/impression thread off into the ditch on a religious debate about whether burn-in 'exists'. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by rrahman 

I think "burn in" only applies to moving components.  Since DAC's to my knowledge have no moving parts, burn in does not happen.

 

There is Mechanical Break-in and Electrical Break-in. A DAC and Amp Obviously don't have any Mechanical component, but obviously are fairly complex from an Electrical standpoint. Since most users in this thread are finding that the sound of the Bifrost is changing over the first hundred hours of use (give or take) let's assume for arguments sake that Break-in does happen. If you want to argue IF Break-in exists I'd suggest that you head over to the Sound Science Forum and enjoy the narrow mindedness of the Objectivist crowd.

Speakers have both components of Break-in, Mechanical and Electrical. They have Drivers that have both Mechanical and Electrical (Wire in the voice coil) aspects and they have Crossovers of varying complexity that go through Electrical Break-in. The same can be said (to some degree) of most headphones, especially if they have Crossovers (Like multi-way IEM's).

To thoroughly Break-in a component it needs to be functioning fully; A DAC needs to be decoding and driving a load (Amp/Preamp or a dummy load - 10k to 100k Ohms).

I have about a 100 hours and I still feel the midrange is thin. This is where I prefer the NFB-3. 

I recently ordered a Yulong D100, how's the Bifrost compare to that?

You do not have to have the amp turned on to "burn-in" a dac.  The output of the dac will be connected to a resistor network of the 1st stage device of the amp and this is what it would drive unless its a preamp with relay switching. 

Capacitors in signal paths are mainly MKP or MKT and these are dry.  How you explained how it improves in SQ during burn-in with these has me baffled, unless they are electrolytic that are wet! 

Temperature and heat generated against time should not change the value or the chemical and physical characteristics unless it is subjected to temperatures above the operating range.  In a dac, the temperature that these devices operate in is not enough to do this unless there is a fault condition.  There are some who experience improvement in cables; but as you increase heat on most metal conductors such as copper and silver the resistance increases, therefore the conductor is less effective!  I may agree that burn-in is real in NFB circuits like Audio GD,because of no -ve feedback applied, you will hear these improvements as temperature increases and that is due to +ve coefficents of BJTs.  I will also agree and confirmed that burn-in is real in valve circuits but still trying to prove that it is real for common SS with feedback applied.

Ecohifi.  How would you explain the change in sound though confirmed from such a wide range of people?  Just because you dont understand something doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.

I am not meaning to start an argument or say this in a negative way.  Just saying that I personally note a change and have no idea why but am happy with the direction that the SQ is taking.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremer930 

Ecohifi.  How would you explain the change in sound though confirmed from such a wide range of people?  Just because you dont understand something doesnt mean that it doesnt exist.

 

I am not meaning to start an argument or say this in a negative way.  Just saying that I personally note a change and have no idea why but am happy with the direction that the SQ is taking.

 

 

@Kremer930,

I am happy that most people on this thread have notice improvements during burn-in, and apologised of the negative impact that what I have stated has upset you or anyone else, I have no way of establishing that improvements due to burn-in is noticeable, not yet!! 
As a technical person and a DIYer I just want everyone to be mindful that this is the sort of stuff that is running in my head when burn-in is mentioned!!!
 

Thanks Ecohifi.

Are any of the big name Bifrost reviews out yet, such as from 6Moons or Skylab?  I wonder if they make any mention of changes to sound character with time?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kremer930 

Thanks Ecohifi.

 

Are any of the big name Bifrost reviews out yet, such as from 6Moons or Skylab?  I wonder if they make any mention of changes to sound character with time?

Srajan over at 6moons posted his Preview yesterday or so, so the review is forthcoming there:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit2/1.html

And Skylab posted in this thread about a week ago with this:

So no, not yet, but both should be soon.

Most reviewers including the ones that are mention are predictably going to say that SQ improve over on-time and I am sure that it will be the case for the Bifrost.  I dont think there is a measure for it and I am not doubting there isn't. Infact I actually do the "burn-in" on components even before giving someone my thoughts always.  Because I consider burn-in as a reference even though most times I have not heard the change as being an improvement unless it is that huge that there is no need for a comparision.    This is to be able to convey an account that is simular to the procedures before I give someone my impressions so we are all on the same wavelenght.