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Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 106

post #1576 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by M-13 View Post

Yeah... I was very confused about this too, since the E7 seems like such an obvious bottleneck. I thought the DACport would make an obvious/noticeable difference. I even burned in the DACport for several days, hoping the situation would improve (same with the MS, and MS+). I'm always mindful of expectation bias. I usually do blindfolded ABX testing with tracks I'm familiar with and then with materials I'm not familiar with. Always lossless of course. But honestly upgradig the DAC had very minimal impact on the sound quality. I'm using the Lyr, HE-500, HD650, Q701, D2000, and Telefunken 60s tubes for the rest of my chain. I was able to correctly identify DACs using tracks I was familiar with, I always knew which one was the E7 compared to the others like DACport, HDP, MS+, but on songs I did not know, it was difficult to say which was offering more sound quality, during the blindfold AB testing.

 

Just my experience with changing out a super low end DAC for several different mid-fi DACs. For me the money is better spent on tubes or saving up money for the Liquid Fire. I'm hoping I'll read something here that convinces me that the Bifrost will make a huge/immediate impact to my chain and that it will be so obvious I won't have to ABX test or anything like that. Kind of like when I upgrade tubes, amps or Headphones.

 

So the difference between your E7 and DACport was huge? like noticeable within 10 seconds for even songs you're not familiar with? Can I ask what the rest of your chain was?


The biggest difference is with the DACPort LX which is a step up over the non LX, but still the regular DACPort is better than the E7 for sure.  I don't AB using tracks I don't know, only tracks I know intimately.  That's how you discern between gear in an accurate and comprehensive fashion.  I use the UERM and my Leckerton UHA6S comparing the E7 and DACPort LX via USB.  Quite easy to discern the difference for me in that chain.  Listening to music you don't know only proves you don't know the music not that there is no difference between DACs.  I'm not sure what sort of expectation you would have by doing such a comparison.  

 

Your bottleneck is the Lyr, it's powerful and can be nice sounding if you like it's signature but it has weak resolving power for an amp.  Schiit even admitted that detail was not a priority in designing their amps, voicing was.  BiFrost is different altogether though tone and voicing was definitely a priority, you can hear it, it is still quite resolving for the price as a DAC should be.  I'm guessing you didn't try the 701 from the DACPort directly w/o the Lyr and the E7 also.  That should be obvious in listening.  The E7 is barely an amp at all, in fact it should have that attribute stripped from it's title IMO.


Edited by Anaxilus - 11/11/11 at 11:00am
post #1577 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by caracara08 View Post

placed an order finally for this. been using the muse nos dac until now.  will be paired with a csp2+ + t1/hd650.  i had almost just went cheaper and got the hrt at 150 but decided to wait for reviews on this one.  my last dac was the minimax EE so im hoping it will compete with that.  

 

i decided given my situation, its smarter to save money than to get it sooner so i placed an order with their retailer.  they wont get them in until december but right now saving that 40$ in shipping and tax is a bigger deal to me than getting it within the next couplw eeks.


how does the EE min max compared to the muse nos dac and which do you prefer?

 

post #1578 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post


how does the EE min max compared to the muse nos dac and which do you prefer?

 



i didnt have them at the same time so its hard to say.  i would still have the EE but needed to pay rent while unemployed.  the muse is a capable dac but the EE (100% from memory) sounded better to me.  smoother and engaging.  is it worth the price diff? to some it is. i happen to be in that some.  i plan to do some a/b with t he bifrost when it gets here mid december.

post #1579 of 3320

Good job. Looks like we have another Bill Evans fan on the boards. I love him and Scott together-- so sadly fleeting a partnership-- especially.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laforgue View Post

My 2 cents:  I find the Bifrost very realistic and very revealing. The bass is tight, so you won't hear the flabby boominess that some ears are accustomed, but Scott La Faro never sounded so good. The double bass sounds exactly right, with the added dimension that you can hear all his sliding fret work and slapping strings. The tympanis in Gergiev's Rite of Spring rocked the room, as they should.  You are definitely going to hear some piercing treble, but that's just like live music.  Hit a high note on a trumpet or violin in a live venue, and it is piercing.  I'm in awe of the Bifrost.  I listened to Prokofiev's Violin Concerto 1 by Vengerov and it was a revelation.  For the first time, I heard everything the orchestra was doing.  I've also noticed audible tape hiss on some high resolution downloads (Rachel Podger from Linn Records).  What I especially like is the roundness and decay of notes. As it has been noted, the soundstage is superb.  The Bifrost is transparent but still very musical.  At $450, I have no complaints.



 

post #1580 of 3320

@sampson_smith - nice av. New album is one of the first albums I used to do listening tests with my Bifrost - sounds fantastic! beyersmile.png

post #1581 of 3320

i'm not surprised many people have trouble hearing differences between DACs when they're using headphones. Try them on good speakers and you'll be in for a treat.

post #1582 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by sorue View Post

i'm not surprised many people have trouble hearing differences between DACs when they're using headphones. Try them on good speakers and you'll be in for a treat.



Yes indeed!!

post #1583 of 3320
Odd, I find headphones easier to tell differences than speakers in general.
post #1584 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by petemac110 View Post



Yes indeed!!


Depends on the headphones!!!!
 

 

post #1585 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post


Depends on the headphones!!!!
 

 



Of course. Just like speakers, there are good ones and excellent ones.

 

 

post #1586 of 3320

I have my Bifrost connected to the S/PDIF on my motherboard now (didn't really realize it was there).

 

The sound is much, much better. I'm pretty sure something is wrong with the S/PDIF on the Audiophile 192; everything sounded overdriven and a bit distorted in comparison to what the motherboard is giving me.

post #1587 of 3320
No difference with the optical cable, still getting some light noise so it must be my comp/onboard sound. I'll figure out what step to take next.
post #1588 of 3320

if your getting noise through optical that souinds the same as spdif something is wrong....  at that point I would think the problem is in the bifrost.

post #1589 of 3320

Just a quick update on my listening with the Bifrost and MiniMax DACs, following from my post of last Tuesday/Wednesday.

 

I have yet to bring the Meier Stagedac into play - this is about two days away. I have also yet to bring in the Lyr. The Stax Lambda Pro I will bring in at the end.

 

1. The brightness I noted in the first hour was entirely gone (with my LCD2 rev 1) at 36 hours burn in. Thinking this might be because of the slightly dark LCD2, I checked with my Beyer T1 at 48 hours, same result.

2. With the brightness gone, there is less sense of "attack". What remains is clarity. I will have more to say about this in a few days.

3. Gone too is the slightly "relentless" quality. On the contrary, the Bifrost is a pleasure to listen to.

4. There are differences between Bifrost and MiniMax, which I will report in a few more days when I've tested and confirmed with more material.

 

FWIW, my subjective assessment of overall SQ at this stage compared to the MiniMax: Bifrost is a good, even very good DAC.

post #1590 of 3320

I've had my Bifrost for well over a week now, and probably have logged at least 100 hours of burn-in with pink noise, ISOTek Burn-In CD FLACs + general listening. I'll echo what pretty much everyone has said in that the Bifrost really remarkably changes with burn-in, so it's pretty much essential to forming an overall opinion of its sound signature, IMO. It is indeed much less brutal/relentless after burn-in - on lossy material, for instance, the Bifrost would just grab all the lossiness by the throat and thrust it in your face - the SQ was not necessarily harsh pre burn-in with this sort of material - the Bifrost would still resolve enough to not bring on listening fatigue - it just was painfully obvious. Now, with the same material, A/B comparisons with FLAC/WAV/ALAC etc. and something like an MP3 will still be obvious, but the lossy material is much more rounded around the edges, its deficiencies more obvious in its lack of extra information or detail for the Bifrost to work with than any graininess or harshness. I was even listening to a 192kbps MP3 the other day (I know, I know) and the Bifrost somehow was managing to make this particular track sound as dynamic as possible, placing the electric bass in different areas of the soundstage that I'd never heard it before (indeed, I couldn't even pick out that instrument at all before the Bifrost, it just would just get lost) - it again just lacked clarity for those particular bass notes due to the lossy nature of the recording, but still somehow was doing as much as it could with what it had to work with. 

 

Anyway, I'm really, really happy with my Bifrost. I'll try and post a more thoughtful, detailed review/impression once I get around the 200 hour mark or so, and when someone makes a dedicated impression thread, I suppose.

 

 

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