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Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 89

post #1321 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by 333jeffery View Post

I don't know why folks are saying there's a lack of bass with the Bifrost. When I played Bach's Toccata and Fugue on it connected to the Lyr, it practically made my teeth wiggle.

Still no hum or clicking from my unit, either.



You're the lucky one,  this is the only dac thats claim to be upgradable,

 

post #1322 of 3320

IIRC one person commented on there being slightly less bass extension (otherwise good sounding) on first impressions. Hard to know how to interpret this without more reporting. Obviously, 333jeffery finds no such problem!

 

I think eco summarized well the negative points. Now I look forward to a good comprehensive review that gives us the full picture. We might see Rob's (Skylab) review in the next 2-3 weeks, perhaps with the LCD3 in the chain! Rob just posted his review of this 'phone, and found it very revealing of source.
 

 

post #1323 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocky500 View Post

What I have gleemed from this thread so far echohifi even though there have not been many of them out in the wild reporting back, is this is most probably one of the worlds best Dacs in its price range. But really to early to tell.

 

I also did not read that the clicking was loud. I thought it was when the bitrate changed not just from track to track.

Only one person has had trouble with Windows 7. (This must be a record when using a product with microsoft windows) :)

I must have missed the part that generaly the bass was lacking.

Only 1 person has had a hum problem that I can see.

 

I think your really trying to judge a product that you have not heard yet I take it?

I personally am looking forward to getting mine ASAP. Hopefully order 500 is comming up shortly.

 

Also don't think there are many Dacs in this price range that are user firmware upgradable.

 


Dont want to be negative and turn you off on your order,  I like someone to compare it to a Sabre implementation,  there is a couple of post that mention that it is good for the price and not many that have dacs that are in the $1000US range that have done the comparision.  I prefer to read post from people that own it than take it from 6moons or stereophile etc, these sites are going to give you a glowing review  and a typical predicted outcome.  You're right I haven't heard one yet.  It is also good that people are posting their issues they are having and waiting on the reponse form Jason as this gives me the opportunity to judge the kind of customer service and how well the QC is during production.

 

It is a very interestring dac which other competition is not jumping into that is credit to the people at Schiit.   This is why Im following this thread.  Im not going to order yet cause I just purchased a EE mini max plus.  All the threads about this dac is also glowing and not many criticism.  Having owned a $69US dac,  this is probably the best value compared to the EE mini max plus.  So im going to wait a while and hoping that Schiit will come good with a statement dac!
 

 

post #1324 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

IIRC one person commented on there being slightly less bass extension (otherwise good sounding) on first impressions.


I believe you mean purrin.  He was quite clear in referring to the lowest octave.  Not the same as being light on bass.

 

post #1325 of 3320

Absolutely agree, but nope purrin is not who I meant. I just found it - I did say IIRC: "...The only downside I think I may have perceived is that my bass doesnt seem to hit as low as before. The mid-bass seems tighter but the low slams dont seem to vibrate my couch as they did previously..." (HyperM3, post 1282, p.86)
 

Quote:

I believe you mean purrin.  He was quite clear in referring to the lowest octave.  Not the same as being light on bass.

 


 

Edits: added "purrin is not who I meant" and... my point simply was no one impression is enough to generalize from. I guess HyperM3 + purrin makes two. Still no statistical power.


Edited by AiDee - 11/1/11 at 3:11pm
post #1326 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by matt_u9 View Post

redmonddad Try this driver http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/Usbdriver.htm

The same USB Chip CM6631.



Thanks, I wish I had seen this earlier.  I would have liked to try it out, but it's too late.  Jason asked that I send the unit back.  The transformer hum is significantly louder than that of the Asgard and that alone justifies a return.  Meanwhile, I have tried installing the USB device on 5 different machines now.  Looks like the USB card might be bad.  I have to say though, as we have come to expect from Schiit, Jason has been fantastically responsive to this.  I may be having a few issues right now, but Schiit customer support totally ROCKS!  Companies like this need to be rewarded!

 

Meanwhile, before I sent the unit back today, I did manage to get it running over the optical connection.  I don't have another discrete DAC to compare it against, so my perspective is how much difference a discrete/dedicated DAC has against a mid-level PC sound card (in this case, a Creative X-Fi).  I used a Schiit Asgard for amplification with Blue Jeans Cable interconnects to the X-Fi and Bifrost.  Wish I had a switcher for quick A/B comparisons, but I had to live with interconnect swaps.  For cans, I used a Senn HD598 and a Denon AH-D5000.

 

So for someone getting their first discrete DAC...was it a day and night difference?  Did it totally transform the experience?  Well, no, not for me, at least with the class of equipment I have.  When I went from the Rega EAR amp to the Asgard, that was a huge difference.  When I switched from my Grado SR-225's to the Denon's, that was a huge difference.  With that kit as a baseline, the Bifrost did not give me that leap to the next plateau of sonic pleasure.  What it did do was provide an incremental improvement to the resolution, detail, and seperation for my particular setup.  My primary impression is that there is a subtle improvement in the little details, like a bit more definition in hearing the click of drumsticks, the brush of a finger, and the slight intake of breath.  I am not hearing new things, but what is there I am distinguishing a bit better with the Bifrost than with the old X-Fi.  I think that there is also a bit more detail or tightness on the bass end, particularly with the Denon AH-D5000 phones, which can get a bit sloppy on the low-end.

 

I am not a super-high end audiophile and I'm definitely on the value end of the spectrum.  I think of my perspective as mainly that of someone just a tiny bit past dipping into this space.  So all that being said, I'm not looking for a refund out of my return.  I plan to wait for Jason to help resolve the issues with my Bifrost unit so that I can get back to listening to it.


Edited by redmonddad - 11/1/11 at 6:05pm
post #1327 of 3320

redmonddad,

 

well said,

 

If Jason has unconditionally asked you to returned it and cover the all freight cost it would be in Schiits best interest for business and I would have nothing but praise for him. 

 

I had an issue my first EE mini max plus that refused to lock onto the s/pdif signal and the unit had to be cycled off/on to reset.  I got a 'use a better cable' response from Morningstar but the dealer I was dealing with were kind enough to a full refund, so instead I requested them to replace it and my current unit hasn't display this locking issue once even if I used the same gear.

 

There is nothing worst to cop a series of try this or that when there is clearly an issue!

 

My 1st dac was a gigaworks dac with a BB1798 chip this is clearly the best $69.00US value I had spent trying.  Unfortunately it will make your ears bleed with certain recordings,  the EE mini max plus doesn't exhibit this so thats why I opt to keep it.  Very detailed especially at the top end, overall a fine smooth quality in SQ but no wow factor as I was hoping for due to the hype on many threads.  So I was disappointed.  The beauty about the EE mini max is the ability that you can roll in opamps.  Im hoping that someone that has ordered a Bifrost has a EE mini max to compare it with and post there findings!

 

Hopefully, and I am sure another unit will resolved your hum issue

post #1328 of 3320

Eco I have the MiniMax (not the plus), and it has a faulty USB. Replacement was an option but as I didn't intend to use its USB I accepted a part-refund instead, in lieu of having to ship it back overseas.

 

My previous DAC option was that built into my Meier Corda Opera. Not surprisingly I found the EE a considerable advance - lively, transparent, highly resolving (details I hadn't heard before), and possibly timbrally different (difficult to disentangle this from the extra resolution).

 

Meier's standalone DAC is similarly a large step up from his Opera's DAC stage. (And no, I haven't yet formally compared the MM and StageDAC).

 

For me the MiniMax was a "wow" but I have to qualify this by saying the LCD2 arrived within a month. MiniMax + <various amps> + LCD2 is a big change from Opera + RS1. The LCD2 factor made me take headgear as seriously as speaker gear for the first time. (And FWIW I prefer the MiniMax with headphones and [Edit:] Concerto StageDAC with speakers ATM).

 

I look forward to the bifrost (once I can get it out of customs and delivered) not because I expect it to be better or worse - I really don't know what to expect - but because I'm curious about what, if anything, it will do differently. All part of my Schiit odyssey wink_face.gif


Edited by AiDee - 11/3/11 at 11:37am
post #1329 of 3320

The mid-bass seems tighter but the low slams dont seem to vibrate my couch as they did previously..."

 

Yes, I'm wondering whether that means there's less bass or what's there is better controlled.  The Bifrost should be delivered Thursday; will have to see if our power is back on by then.  (In Pennsylvania, hard hit by early snowstorm causing widespread power outages - been 4 days and counting....)

post #1330 of 3320
I think I might notice a very slight reduction in bass compared to the DACMagic, but the clarity of the mids/treble versus the DACMagic is so much better it's hardly believable I listened to the DACMagic for as long as I did. The bass from the Bifrost is smooth and clean, hits very nicely, but may not be quite as loud or as much reverberation. Surely not the best DAC ever, but clearly a huge step up in this price bracket.
post #1331 of 3320

I'm torn.   I really love the fact that the Bifrost is made in the USA by a small company of audio geeks...I also love the simplicity and styling and I love the no BS philosophy.   The problem is, right now it's a "pig in a poke" (old expression, not perjorative) with very few, if any, "professional" reviews.  What reviews I've read here have been luke warm at best.  Add these things to a pinched checkbook and you can guess why I'm hesitant to jump in, even with the 15 day money back guarantee.

A confounding issue is the plethora of glowing reviews for some if it's competitors (AKA: the TC-7520SEG and the Dacmagic).  Both a bit long in the tooth but still great performers.   The last DAC I owned was the TC-7520 (not Caiman) and I absolutely loved the detail.  The Caiman gets much the same reviews only more so.

I love detail.  I love to hear the ice tinkling in the highball glasses and the casual conversations on a live jazz recording.   I love all the little details in a classical work and the chord changes on Chris Whitley's guitar.

 

Can the Bifrost deliver this? 

post #1332 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by AiDee View Post

Eco I have the MiniMax (not the plus), and it has a faulty USB. Replacement was an option but as I didn't intend to use its USB I accepted a part-refund instead, in lieu of having to ship it back overseas.

 

My previous DAC option was that built into my Meier Corda Opera. Not surprisingly I found the EE a considerable advance - lively, transparent, highly resolving (details I hadn't heard before), and possibly timbrally different (difficult to disentangle this from the extra resolution).

 

Meier's standalone DAC is similarly a large step up from his Opera's DAC stage. (And no, I haven't yet formally compared the MM and StageDAC).

 

For me the MiniMax was a "wow" but I have to qualify this by saying the LCD2 arrived within a month. MiniMax + <various amps> + LCD2 is a big change from Opera + RS1. The LCD2 factor made me take headgear as seriously as speaker gear for the first time. (And FWIW I prefer the MiniMax with headphones and Concerto with speakers ATM).

 

I look forward to the bifrost (once I can get it out of customs and delivered) not because I expect it to be better or worse - I really don't know what to expect - but because I'm curious about what, if anything, it will do differently. All part of my Schiit odyssey wink_face.gif

AiDee,

 

do you have a Stax Lamba Professional?  If so I hope you can do a comparision with the LCD2  when you get it!  In saying that the Stax have a unique sound, you either love it or hate it!

 

 

post #1333 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traddad View Post

I'm torn.   I really love the fact that the Bifrost is made in the USA by a small company of audio geeks...I also love the simplicity and styling and I love the no BS philosophy.   The problem is, right now it's a "pig in a poke" (old expression, not perjorative) with very few, if any, "professional" reviews.  What reviews I've read here have been luke warm at best.  Add these things to a pinched checkbook and you can guess why I'm hesitant to jump in, even with the 15 day money back guarantee.
A confounding issue is the plethora of glowing reviews for some if it's competitors (AKA: the TC-7520SEG and the Dacmagic).  Both a bit long in the tooth but still great performers.   The last DAC I owned was the TC-7520 (not Caiman) and I absolutely loved the detail.  The Caiman gets much the same reviews only more so.
I love detail.  I love to hear the ice tinkling in the highball glasses and the casual conversations on a live jazz recording.   I love all the little details in a classical work and the chord changes on Chris Whitley's guitar.

Can the Bifrost deliver this? 

See my comments in the post above yours regarding the DACMagic. As to fine details, I'm listening to the Mozart violin concerto that is track #5 on the HDTracks 24/96 demo disc (you can download for yourself) and I can hear things like the breath of the player, when the player barely touches an extra string by accident which is very faint from a distance, but happens often. I hear the orchestra shuffling pages, moving their instruments into rest position during the cadenza, and so much more. It's quite good.

Also, I don't put any faith in 'professional' reviews. Nobody should, imo, unless the magazine/site publicly displays their financial information. Non-professional reviews like most found here by names like Skylab, Joker, and the like are not to be trusted out right either, but if you follow their reviews, look at their gear as time passes, their posts in threads on the topics you are following, you'll find out if they are being consistent or merely trying to be the big man on campus to get attention. If you put in the time to find people who share the same preferences you do, or can at least draw confident conclusions from, you have found your best reviewers.
post #1334 of 3320


I do. I've had it since 1992, supplied with the stock energizer so nothing special. It didn't persuade me away from speakers, but I do appreciate its qualities in terms of upper extension and resolution.

 

I will report back in due course - bifrost in my hands next week I expect, then a week to 10 days to come up with some worthwhile impressions wink_face.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post

AiDee,

 

do you have a Stax Lamba Professional?  If so I hope you can do a comparision with the LCD2  when you get it!  In saying that the Stax have a unique sound, you either love it or hate it!

 

 



 

post #1335 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by Traddad View Post

I'm torn.   I really love the fact that the Bifrost is made in the USA by a small company of audio geeks...I also love the simplicity and styling and I love the no BS philosophy.   The problem is, right now it's a "pig in a poke" (old expression, not perjorative) with very few, if any, "professional" reviews.  What reviews I've read here have been luke warm at best.  Add these things to a pinched checkbook and you can guess why I'm hesitant to jump in, even with the 15 day money back guarantee.

A confounding issue is the plethora of glowing reviews for some if it's competitors (AKA: the TC-7520SEG and the Dacmagic).  Both a bit long in the tooth but still great performers.   The last DAC I owned was the TC-7520 (not Caiman) and I absolutely loved the detail.  The Caiman gets much the same reviews only more so.

I love detail.  I love to hear the ice tinkling in the highball glasses and the casual conversations on a live jazz recording.   I love all the little details in a classical work and the chord changes on Chris Whitley's guitar.

 

Can the Bifrost deliver this? 

 

I dont know what the Bifrost can and cant do, but I'm fairly confident that it will still be available in 3, 4 or 6 months from now. Say what you will about their gear, but this doesn't appear to be another Singlepower.
 

 

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