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Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 88

post #1306 of 3320

Hey all:

 

1. We haven't experienced that error on Win7--in fact, the driver has simply worked with all the Win7, Vista, and XP systems we tried it with. All I can think is try to reinstall the driver, try it on another system, and let us know if it doesn't work. We'll also see what C-Media has to say about it.

 

2. A tiny amount of transformer hum can be normal (ear to chassis kind of thing), but I've never said excessive hum is normal--in fact, in the 6Moons review, I said we contacted the transformer manufacturer and changed the process to eliminate the hum, or at least dramatically reduce it. Which was done in 2010.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

All the best,

Jason


Edited by Jason Stoddard - 10/31/11 at 11:20pm
post #1307 of 3320

Re: transformer...

 

I am familiar with the 6Moons review and I do have an Asgard.  I believe the hum on my Bifrost is louder than my Asgard.  However, as the Asgard is at work, I will not be able to compare the noise level until tomorrow.

 

From your statement below, I take it that you would agree that the hum is excessive if it is greater than the amount of transformer hum on the Asgard?
 

As for the driver issue, I'll have another machine to try out at work (which is the intended machine for this DAC anyway).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jason Stoddard View Post

Hey all:

 

1. We haven't experienced that error on Win7--in fact, the driver has simply worked with all the Win7, Vista, and XP systems we tried it with. All I can think is try to reinstall the driver, try it on another system, and let us know if it doesn't work. We'll also see what C-Media has to say about it.

 

2. A tiny amount of transformer hum can be normal (ear to chassis kind of thing), but I've never said excessive hum is normal--in fact, in the 6Moons review, I said we contacted the transformer manufacturer and changed the process to eliminate the hum, or at least dramatically reduce it. Which was done in 2010.

 

Hope this helps a bit.

 

All the best,

Jason



 

post #1308 of 3320

Amount of hum from transformers will greatly be influenced by DC component within local mains (110/220Vac) waveform. Some locations have great deal of DC component nowadays, which is causing saturation of iron core of a typical PS transformer.

It is almost always improvement if special Low flux and/or Air-Gapped Core mains insulation transformers are used for powering all electronics for audio applications.

 

Best to all,

Zelidu

 

post #1309 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

General question: When listening to different DAC's, do you find the differences are more noticeable on headphones... or on speakers?

 

 

 

 

I do tests with headphones, just because if the room is not perfectly treated, you can hear substantial differences just moving your head a few inches here and there. That's where placebos come from.
 

 

post #1310 of 3320

redmonddad Try this driver http://dhost.info/mhdtlab/Usbdriver.htm

The same USB Chip CM6631.

post #1311 of 3320

Quote:

Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

It's just async'd 001011011101010011 I don't think glass will make a difference.

 



Mental models can be harmful when they leave out significant data.  There are no "zeros" and "ones" moving down wires in digital audio.  There is an analog signal that *represents* zeros and ones.  If it is an electrical signal, it is subject to the same sorts of problems as other electrical signals (noise through signal connection, noise through ground connection, interference from RF and other sources...).  An optical connection eliminates many of the problems with electrical signals but introduces others (for example, termination quality in optical cables is particularly important).

 

As always, the best and easiest way to tell if something performs better in your system is to listen.  (Being mindful, of course, of what Richard Feynman said: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.")

post #1312 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

 

General question: When listening to different DAC's, do you find the differences are more noticeable on headphones... or on speakers?

 

 

 

 



To my old ears I find that headphones are more resolving, especially if you have a Stax Lamba.  I judge all components with these and then thu my main rig which are 6ft ribbons that I have put together.  The differences are more noticable on cans then thru speakers

 

post #1313 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by judmarc View Post

Quote:



Mental models can be harmful when they leave out significant data.  There are no "zeros" and "ones" moving down wires in digital audio.  There is an analog signal that *represents* zeros and ones.  If it is an electrical signal, it is subject to the same sorts of problems as other electrical signals (noise through signal connection, noise through ground connection, interference from RF and other sources...).  An optical connection eliminates many of the problems with electrical signals but introduces others (for example, termination quality in optical cables is particularly important).

 

As always, the best and easiest way to tell if something performs better in your system is to listen.  (Being mindful, of course, of what Richard Feynman said: "The first principle is that you must not fool yourself, and you are the easiest person to fool.")


I don't claim to be an expert but surely that's backwards. The digital "zeroes" and "ones" you refer to represent the signal, not the other way round. If it was an analogue signal in the first place, what use would a Digital to Analogue Converter be? 

post #1314 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by christophrowley View Post


I don't claim to be an expert but surely that's backwards. The digital "zeroes" and "ones" you refer to represent the signal, not the other way round. If it was an analogue signal in the first place, what use would a Digital to Analogue Converter be? 



To transmit digital signal at long distances using 0 and 1 is limited to the medium it is done, to transmit these zeros and ones successfully it is done on an analog waveform that is modulated. this is also the same for optical transmission.  So the signal is modulated at the transmission end and demodulated at the receiving end that converts it back to 0 and 1 with error correction built in.


Edited by ecohifi - 11/1/11 at 4:39am
post #1315 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by ecohifi View Post



To transmit digital signal at long distances using 0 and 1 is limited to the medium it is done, to transmit these zeros and ones successfully it is done on an analog waveform that is modulated. this is also the same for optical transmission.  So the signal is modulated at the transmission end and demodulated at the receiving end that converts it back to 0 and 1 with error correction built in.


 

Well you learn something new every day. Anywhere you could recommend me to read up on this?

post #1316 of 3320

Here are my gathering of info so far on this thread for the bifrost:

 

good sound stage and detailed sound

 

Lack of bass and base resolution

 

Doesnt beat $3k dacs

 

Has issues with curtain win 7 drivers thru usb as win m/c doesnt recognised the unit

 

Has loud clicking issues that is considered normal due to activation of relays when changing tracks!

 

No acknowledgement of possibilty of remote firmware upgrades on presently owned units

 

Hum issues, undefined whether its due to the transformer or is it thu audio outputs?

 

Hate to be -ve but what other things have I missed thats going to come under "normal" 

 

The hype for this product was so +ve but thats when noone has owned it.  My prediction is that once the review units reach there destination the write ups are going to be flowery!!

 

 

 

 

 

post #1317 of 3320
Quote:
Originally Posted by christophrowley View Post


 

Well you learn something new every day. Anywhere you could recommend me to read up on this?


Look for topics such as analog/data transmission,  As you research this topic the details will overwhelm you, because in practice the measurements that are done during pracs sometimes do not prove the theory.  Good place to start is networking and connecting PCs
 

 

post #1318 of 3320

What I have gleemed from this thread so far echohifi even though there have not been many of them out in the wild reporting back, is this is most probably one of the worlds best Dacs in its price range. But really to early to tell.

 

I also did not read that the clicking was loud. I thought it was when the bitrate changed not just from track to track.

Only one person has had trouble with Windows 7. (This must be a record when using a product with microsoft windows) :)

I must have missed the part that generaly the bass was lacking.

Only 1 person has had a hum problem that I can see.

 

I think your really trying to judge a product that you have not heard yet I take it?

I personally am looking forward to getting mine ASAP. Hopefully order 500 is comming up shortly.

 

Also don't think there are many Dacs in this price range that are user firmware upgradable.

 


Edited by rocky500 - 11/1/11 at 7:34am
post #1319 of 3320

So Jason,

 

Now that Bifrosts are on their way does that mean that Asgards will start shipping again as well?

post #1320 of 3320

I don't know why folks are saying there's a lack of bass with the Bifrost. When I played Bach's Toccata and Fugue on it connected to the Lyr, it practically made my teeth wiggle.

Still no hum or clicking from my unit, either.

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