Schiit DACs (Bifrost and Gungnir down, one to go)? The information and anticipation thread. - Page 80

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

Bifrost impressions from purrin and Anaxilus from the recent Irvine meet -

Now I'm disappointed.  Seems Jason and Mike haven't figured out how to make a $3K DAC for $350/$450.  

My Sarcasm Metre is unable to get a reading from this post. Regardless, it's probably indicative of some of the expectation placed on Schiit. Anything less than a glowing review filled with hyperbole is a failure. It's sad that a restrained, but ultimately positive impression is discarded in favour of the usual tripe. These are the views that truly highlight a product's success. It's a shame they're often drowned out by noise.

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

 

My Sarcasm Metre is unable to get a reading from this post. Regardless, it's probably indicative of some of the expectation placed on Schiit. Anything less than a glowing review filled with hyperbole is a failure. It's sad that a restrained, but ultimately positive impression is discarded in favour of the usual tripe. These are the views that truly highlight a product's success. It's a shame they're often drowned out by noise.

 

Your sarcasm meter should have pegged.  At least that was my intent.

Who would really expect them to make a $350 DAC that betters a $3000 DAC?  That isn't realistic in even the slightest.  It would be nice to have the Bifrost compare with DACs that cost slightly more ($100 more, $200 more).  No need to go for the unrealistic and have it match or better DACs that cost 10 times as much.  Wait for the statement DAC before expecting to match the big DACs.

I wonder how much of an upgrade the mid-level balanced model will be over the Bifrost or will its SQ approach the statement model?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

Your sarcasm meter should have pegged.  At least that was my intent.

 

Who would really expect them to make a $350 DAC that betters a $3000 DAC?  That isn't realistic in even the slightest.  It would be nice to have the Bifrost compare with DACs that cost slightly more ($100 more, $200 more).  No need to go for the unrealistic and have it match or better DACs that cost 10 times as much.  Wait for the statement DAC before expecting to match the big DACs.

exactly. nobody expects a hyundai sonata to outrun a bmw M5. as long as it can keep up with an accord, everybody will be happy.

Well said.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by olor1n 

 

 

My Sarcasm Metre is unable to get a reading from this post. Regardless, it's probably indicative of some of the expectation placed on Schiit. Anything less than a glowing review filled with hyperbole is a failure. It's sad that a restrained, but ultimately positive impression is discarded in favour of the usual tripe. These are the views that truly highlight a product's success. It's a shame they're often drowned out by noise.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ham Sandwich 

Now I'm disappointed.  Seems Jason and Mike haven't figured out how to make a $3K DAC for $350/$450.  

OH Schiit!!!!, Say what! its the last quarter of 2011 and no one has a $350/450 product that beats a $3k dac, I'm disappointed!!!

Today I've nothing to do. I mean, if you want I can build myself a DAC ripping my RealTek soundcard off from my PC and putting it in a wooden jewel-box with my electric shaver's PSU, then call it "esoteric overcompensating audiophile DAC" and put it on ebay for 3000€. So you'll have a 3000€ DAC sounding worse than your Bifrost. If it can help taking the thread back into topic...

...

It is pointless to spend 3.000 $ on a stereo DAC in 2011. You can get some great studio-grade stereo DACs for the half and less. 

Yes maybe some audiophile-targeted brands can still sell an unbalanced minimalist DAC for the double, but taking those products in consideration just for the sake of saying "sounds better than a 3000€ DAC" is nonsense, since no-one in their senses who can surf the internet a little is going to buy any of them anymore...

I don't think that the Bifrost was meant to "compete" with those anyway... for a "feature" thing, more than SQ... I'm sure it can be a definitive piece of gear anyway.

I wonder if Jason may divulge some more details about the intermediate Dac and/or amp since the Bifrost is now almost in to smooth waters.  

Has anyone else received shipping confirmation for their USB Bifrosts?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edoardo 

Today I've nothing to do. I mean, if you want I can build myself a DAC ripping my RealTek soundcard off from my PC and putting it in a wooden jewel-box with my electric shaver's PSU, then call it "esoteric overcompensating audiophile DAC" and put it on ebay for 3000€. So you'll have a 3000€ DAC sounding worse than your Bifrost. If it can help taking the thread back into topic...

 

...

 

It is pointless to spend 3.000 $ on a stereo DAC in 2011. You can get some great studio-grade stereo DACs for the half and less. 

Yes maybe some audiophile-targeted brands can still sell an unbalanced minimalist DAC for the double, but taking those products in consideration just for the sake of saying "sounds better than a 3000€ DAC" is nonsense, since no-one in their senses who can surf the internet a little is going to buy any of them anymore...

 

I don't think that the Bifrost was meant to "compete" with those anyway... for a "feature" thing, more than SQ... I'm sure it can be a definitive piece of gear anyway.

 

 

+1

agreed!

Why would you spend $3k on a dac as more are flooding the market?  unless you had $3k as lose change!!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by kongmw 

exactly. nobody expects a hyundai sonata to outrun a bmw M5. as long as it can keep up with an accord, everybody will be happy.

Not the Accord owner.

Why is it that most people believe that the point of technological or performance diminishing returns happens to be  magically within their spending limit?

I've got news for you: Just like Home users the level (performance & price) of DACs that Studios use runs the gambit. The Benchmark and cheaper Lavry units are fairly inexpensive  Pro D/As (In reality the Benchmark DAC1 and Lavry DA10/11 were primarily intended for Remote Monitoring) (There are Semipro product that are typically used by home studios, so the line between Pro and Consumer has blurred). That being said better Studios still use  the better Pro D/A's from companies like  DCS and  EMM  Labs (the Pro DCS and EMM equipment lacks the super heavy chassis of their consumer gear but otherwise is just as well built). So just because some studio's get by with the Benchmark don't delude yourselves into believing that all of the really expensive stuff out there is a waste of money, sure everyone has their own point of diminishing returns, but everyone is different. So lighten up and be happy that you're satisfied with a modest D/A instead of continuously insinuating that anyone who spends more is a idiot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yikes 

 

 

Why is it that most people believe that the point of technological or performance diminishing returns happens to be  magically within their spending limit?

 

 

 

That's because of non-indipendent reviewers offering giant-killers at any price... Giant-killers on sale for anyone's pockets! Yeaaah!!! Any "much" you spend, you get something that beats stuff costing ten times more.

The other way round: why you don't find anyone admitting that the returns started to diminish at the half of what they spent?

To be honest, I've met people with huge spending limits to be so happy with their new MF V-DAC in their no-compromise rig... Or people happy to amplify their 3,000+$ speakers with a T-amp... I've owned a T-amp and strongly repented of having not got something else within my spending limit and in the same price range!

When it comes to DACs, jitter reduction stages and sought-after analog output stages are needed for a really loyal playback. Then a good PSU can be welcome.

This stuff costs. C'est la vie.

By the way, nowadays "entry level" priced DAC give objectively very good results, since the technology implied in most DACs is extremely similar, at any price range, and they are all transparent enough to make us appreciate our music even at Hi-Res even if they're not the best solution available.

IMHO, if you don't need top-notch fully balanced impedance-matched rig, and/or you are not willing to spend time or money in configuring OS and SW to make your expenses worthy, an entry level unbalanced DAC could really be a definitive choice, in 2011.

It's also a matter of coupling with the rest of the rig. I've got an Arcam rDAC priced at 350€, I'd never dare to say it sounds much better than a 150€ Asus soundcard, ceteris paribus, without a proper test.

I chose the Arcam because I own a laptop and that little thing features the dCS USB 2.0 asynch input. But I am aware that when it comes to audio, the USB technology has flaws, and I'd never say that a PCI soundcard + DAC solution would sound worse, the same, or better, just because the reviewer said the dCS technology is "woah!". etcetera.

I was just saying that IMHO, most of the times it is common sense not to spend more than the professionals do, especially if there is no technological issue, it's just about a deltasigma chip put in a bad-looking aluminum case rather than in a jewel-box. At least I'm sure that the first solution will be soldered properly and that was designed to last.

I know there are few out there who own the Audio GD NFB-3.  Any comparisons yet?  Would be helpful since both are in the same price range. 

Hey all,

Another slight delay on shipping USB--we want to make a minor firmware update on the delivered boards. We'll be shipping in a couple of days. And yes, I know, I'm starting to sound like a broken record . . .

All the best,

Jason