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RS raptor vs b-52 for hd800 - Page 4

post #46 of 61

Chefguru, when do you plan to upgrade ?  Pinnacle might not seem so expensive if you plan to keep it for five years or more.  

post #47 of 61

Thank you for the response Arnaud. It was quite educational, and it is interesting to hear your thoughts about the differing benefits in high-end dynamic and electrostatic amplification. I appreciate you taking the time to post it. 

 

Do you mind if I ask one more follow-up question? You mentioned that one of the issues many have with the HD800 is a treble peak in the 6k to 8k range. Out of curiosity, could this problem be solved by EQ-ing? Also, as both the pinnacle and the B52 are tubed, could tube rolling possibly cure a treble peak?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by arnaud View Post


4. The perceived tonality of the headphone (overall balance between low / mids / highs) and extension (low and high frequency limit) significantly change when using various amps, but you can't expect a higher priced amp to remove a (5dB~?) peak which lies at neither of the extremes. The peak in HD800 response that most complain about is probably somewhere between 6-8kHz (low and high), not 17kHz or 100Hz...

 

 

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge, Arnaud!

post #48 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by TMoney View Post

Thank you for the response Arnaud. It was quite educational, and it is interesting to hear your thoughts about the differing benefits in high-end dynamic and electrostatic amplification. I appreciate you taking the time to post it. 

 

Do you mind if I ask one more follow-up question? You mentioned that one of the issues many have with the HD800 is a treble peak in the 6k to 8k range. Out of curiosity, could this problem be solved by EQ-ing? Also, as both the pinnacle and the B52 are tubed, could tube rolling possibly cure a treble peak?

 

Quote:

 

Thanks in advance for sharing your knowledge, Arnaud!


I'm sure Arnaud will address this question later.  However, in my experience the peak on the treble is smooth out significantly with a cable upgrade.  My upgrade cable for the HD800 is a balanced Apuresound V3.  The stock HD800 used to bother my ears after 30 mins or so of listening, but now I can go hours without any problem.  My system for the HD800 is Gilmore Reference Balanced (GSX) for amp and Exemplar 5910 for source. 

 

post #49 of 61

Heard the HD800 with all kinds of different amps and cables and the treble problem was always there.  I'd recommend EQ for sure.  It's actually proven to work.

post #50 of 61
In my case, although a recable did help reduce sibilance, a more drastic mod was necessary to
significantly reduce the treble. You can search for it on this forum under my name, or Jazz or iPodJ. The idea is to add sound absorbing material inside the earcup to reduce reflections off the frame / increase acoustic dissipation at high frequencies. Sort of a natural way to equalize the response. I am not an adept of digital or electrical equalizer in the signal path, but I assume some nice results may be achieved when applied with moderation...
Edited by arnaud - 4/4/11 at 5:27am
post #51 of 61
You don't have to spend mega bucks to make the HD800's shine, it's plain ignorance to think otherwise. I'm sure the Pinnacle uses the best components and is a superb amp in all respects, however I do not believe this equates proportionately with sound quality vs MUCH cheaper amps.
Personally I'm sick to death of reading the ridiculous claims of uber expensive equipment must be paired with the HD800 for best results. It really is an ongoing joke here on Head Fi.
Spend half the cash, donate the rest to Japan. You'll have a system that will sound just as good as the Pinnacle, and you'll feel totally good about yourself.
post #52 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwmclean View Post
 Spend half the cash, donate the rest to Japan. You'll have a system that will sound just as good as the Pinnacle, and you'll feel totally good about yourself.


Now here's a voice of wisdom ;)

 

post #53 of 61

Well, there's always this.


 

post #54 of 61

Please note that Innerspace stated that he churned thru many samples of HD800s until he found one that was bass-heavy. (See his fine review of the Pinnacle for details.)

 

My RSA B52/HD800 combo is quite neutral, even slightly warm sometimes. But still, some recordings excite the Senns' upper midrange and I need to switch to my T1s or PS1000s,

to calm things down. The 800s (at least my pair, # 6320) are usually chllier than these other phones. That's not to say they are not spectacular with the right recording,

but I feel that is the basic character of my pair. My  B52 serves them well (Bendix 6900 tubes help a lot, along with Telefunken 12AU7s.)

But I actually feel the other 2 phones above are even better matches, with fullness, impact, tight bass,

great texture and substance, and control. The 800s beat them in soundstage (layering and space), and are my clear choice when the recording permits it.

I say that the Grados and Beyers are better matches because they work well with more recordings, from classical to pop to rock.

 

So, I wonder what the Pinnacle, which I'm guessing from these reviews does not have the warmish signature of the B52, would do with a different sounding HD800 sample.

[Of course, If one could afford a Pinnacle, I guess they could afford a new pair of 800s :) . ]

And it sure would be interesting if the Pinnacle could add more soundstaging to the T1s; that would make them really amazing (I'm a big T1 fan).

 

 


Edited by rgs9200m - 4/4/11 at 5:29pm
post #55 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Monkey View Post

Well, there's always this.


 


Nice wallwart psu’s a real quality statement and only $3000 biggrin.gif  

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Please note that Innerspace stated that he churned thru many samples of HD800s until he found one that was bass-heavy. (See his fine review of the Pinnacle for details.)

 

My RSA B52/HD800 combo is quite neutral, even slightly warm sometimes. But still, some recordings excite the Senns' upper midrange and I need to switch to my T1s or PS1000s,

to calm things down. The 800s (at least my pair, # 6320) are usually chllier than these other phones. That's not to say they are not spectacular with the right recording,

but I feel that is the basic character of my pair. My  B52 serves them well (Bendix 6900 tubes help a lot, along with Telefunken 12AU7s.)

But I actually feel the other 2 phones above are even better matches, with fullness, impact, tight bass,

great texture and substance, and control. The 800s beat them in soundstage (layering and space), and are my clear choice when the recording permits it.

I say that the Grados and Beyers are better matches because they work well with more recordings, from classical to pop to rock.

 

So, I wonder what the Pinnacle, which I'm guessing from these reviews does not have the warmish signature of the B52, would do with a different sounding HD800 sample.

[Of course, If one could afford a Pinnacle, I guess they could afford a new pair of 800s :) . ]

And it sure would be interesting if the Pinnacle could add more soundstaging to the T1s; that would make them really amazing (I'm a big T1 fan).

 

 


For kind of money you’ve invested I personally wouldn’t want character in an amp or headphone, if I wanted character there’s plenty of gear a hell of a lot cheaper that’ll do just that.

 

post #56 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by arnaud View Post

In my case, although a recable did help reduce sibilance, a more drastic mod was necessary to
significantly reduce the treble. You can search for it on this forum under my name, or Jazz or iPodJ. The idea is to add sound absorbing material inside the earcup to reduce reflections off the frame / increase acoustic dissipation at high frequencies. Sort of a natural way to equalize the response. I am not an adept of digital or electrical equalizer in the signal path, but I assume some nice results may be achieved when applied with moderation...


I've actually removed that mod since switching amps, but I'm still experimenting with ways to get the most out of the HD800.  Right now it's in stock form though.

 

post #57 of 61
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnwmclean View Post




Nice wallwart psu’s a real quality statement and only $3000 biggrin.gif  

 

 


 

 

And those are just the ones you can see...I'll bet there are more wallwarts inside the box.
 

 

post #58 of 61


 

hey Buddy...

The 12AU7 Telefunken are very well known to be very airy & detailed, certenly not the the best match with HD800.

By replacing them with Mullards 12AU7, the tonal characteristics of the HD800 changes completely. You will enjoy the Mullard in the B-52 as they bring the warmth & control over the upper top of the HD800..

Ray Samuels


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rgs9200m View Post

Please note that Innerspace stated that he churned thru many samples of HD800s until he found one that was bass-heavy. (See his fine review of the Pinnacle for details.)

 

My RSA B52/HD800 combo is quite neutral, even slightly warm sometimes. But still, some recordings excite the Senns' upper midrange and I need to switch to my T1s or PS1000s,

to calm things down. The 800s (at least my pair, # 6320) are usually chllier than these other phones. That's not to say they are not spectacular with the right recording,

but I feel that is the basic character of my pair. My  B52 serves them well (Bendix 6900 tubes help a lot, along with Telefunken 12AU7s.)

But I actually feel the other 2 phones above are even better matches, with fullness, impact, tight bass,

great texture and substance, and control. The 800s beat them in soundstage (layering and space), and are my clear choice when the recording permits it.

I say that the Grados and Beyers are better matches because they work well with more recordings, from classical to pop to rock.

 

So, I wonder what the Pinnacle, which I'm guessing from these reviews does not have the warmish signature of the B52, would do with a different sounding HD800 sample.

[Of course, If one could afford a Pinnacle, I guess they could afford a new pair of 800s :) . ]

And it sure would be interesting if the Pinnacle could add more soundstaging to the T1s; that would make them really amazing (I'm a big T1 fan).

 

 



 

post #59 of 61

Thanks for the advice on the Mullards Ray. (And also thanks for the awesome B52, maybe my most prized possession!)

I was using Telefunken 12AU7 ECC82 versions, and now I'm using the the 802S versions, which is a step up.

I'm kind of hooked on the crystalline highs of the 802Ss when everything falls into place, which is often enough.

 

Just to reiterate, my B52 is a wonderful match with the Beyer T1s. I was just listening tonight, and the sound is extremely silky and detailed, along with very firm control of the lower mids to deep bass.

I've seen little mention around here of the a B52/T1 combo (nor Raptor or Stealth for that matter), and I think it deserves more attention.

The T1 can be somewhat brittle up top (or a little shouty with high-pitched vocals) with the wrong amp, and my B52 turns the upper highs into a thing of beauty, and brings the vocals

into the plane of the music just right. Overall, the B52 softens the T1's images slightly, which is exactly what they need to achieve greatness, which I think they do.

 

The B52 is also a great match for the PS1000s, again controlling a sometimes gurgly bass with other amps and keeping them from being too splashy in the highs.

I've had my B52 for 3 years now, and I appreciate it more than ever.

 

 

 

 


Edited by rgs9200m - 4/5/11 at 10:34pm
post #60 of 61

what balance cable are you using?

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