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Good Power Cord article from 6 Moons - Page 2

post #16 of 64

Good point Uncle Erik. I merely pointed out the absurdity of using a cable to do the job of a filter, no other considerations taken into account.

Considering the whole picture, it is indeed ridiculous to place a filter before your power supply, I edited my previous post to reflect this.

post #17 of 64

We can put aside the debate over power cords for a moment and all agree that article is not logical. The argument that 100 miles of power lines function as attenuators/filters only holds true if the extra noise was introduced 100 miles away, rather than 1 mile or 20 feet away from the house. So where is the critical point where power lines will magically filter out all extraneous noise? Beyond the last six feet? One mile? 100 miles?

post #18 of 64


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

If a cable overrides the quality of a power supply, then that means the power supply was terribly designed.

 

post #19 of 64

I was very skeptical about power cables and the differences they supposedly made in audio applications. I've owned a first generation Shunyata Venom cord for a few years and was never really able to tell the difference between it and a variety of other cords including the ubiquitous Volex and a few other nondescript  ones I had lying around. I basically kept it mostly for its look and figured it couldn't be any worse than a $15 Volex.

Last weekend I was at an audio dealer and inquired, mostly out of curiosity, about the Venom 3. The sales guy seemed indifferent to it but suggested that I take home a $600 Siltech SPX-20 demo cable "just to try it out"

I told him I was very skeptical and in any case there was no way that I would even consider forking over 600 bucks for a piece of wire. Well it turns out that the SPX-20 made a huge difference in the sound of my EE DAC - way more than any tube rolling could. Sound stage, noise floor, separation and detail were all improved.  This dispels any doubts I had about power cables making a difference. They do!

Unfortunately in this case while the SPX-20 made everything wide open and crystal clear it also reduced the bass considerably and make my system sound very thin - no doubt about it.

So at least in my system, regardless of price, the $100 Venom and the $15 Volex win hands down.

Now that I'm convinced power cables DO make a difference all I need to do is to find one that will make things sound better - hopefully it won't cost $600 either.


Edited by Turn&cough - 3/23/11 at 3:39pm
post #20 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn&cough View Post
 no doubt about it.

Easily explained by placebo, a scientifically demonstrated phenomenon.  The only thing a cable manufacturer would need to do to demonstrate the existence of cable effects would be to show measurements on the DC side of the supply.  The fact that no such measurements exist and that these measurements are trivial to obtain is enough to show that the whole concept is bogus.
 

 

post #21 of 64

Yeah it must be the placenta effect. Strange that I can't hear it with certain tubes or any of the other cables including the Venom. Also strange that AFTER trying the Siltech I did a search on the web and discovered that others had experienced the same characteristics.  The placenta works in mysterious ways.


Edited by Turn&cough - 3/24/11 at 4:27pm
post #22 of 64
Turn&cough, what makes you think you're a reliable judge of sound quality?

Try an unsighted test. If you're hearing the difference, you don't need to see the cable.
post #23 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Turn&cough View Post

Yeah it must be the placenta effect. Strange that I can't hear it with certain tubes or any of the other cables including the Venom. Also strange that AFTER trying the Siltech I did a search on the web and discovered that others had experienced the same characteristics.  The placenta works in mysterious ways.


There is substantial scientific evidence showing that placebo can cause a perceived effect.

There is no scientific evidence showing that a cable will have the perceived effect.

Occam's Razor.

 

post #24 of 64

The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

 

It is wasting your time trying to convince someone that what he/she is perceiving as a clear improvement is placebo effect. If it doesn't work for you, this is fine by all mean and we will not spend time arguing about it. But for some - me included - power conditioning have become an essential part of their system. Actually, much as the foundation of a house.

 

Some interesting reading here on power cords: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/FAQ-Tech.html

 

I do not claim to understand power conditioning, but I know what my ears are telling me. And effects of power cords are not subtle at all and actually IME more pronounced that IC cables. It is nonsense to speculate on what others should ear, but rather keep an open mind and maybe make some great discovery.

post #25 of 64

We are fools because when we buy anything audio related, our brains are tuning our ears and we are doing this subconsciously. And you think we are nuts? Everyone riding the DBT train has their own experiences in said testing to speak from experience I assume. Too bad the efforts to debate this couldn't be harnessed so it would mean something.

 

How can people have an open discussion about cable experiences without the circular drivel? If my brain were adding bass when I didn't hear it before, great, I'm a mental audio filter able to change my hearing to fit my reality at the time by physical suggestion. I can stop buying gear, use buds for a reference and imagine the beautiful music.

 

If it were a question of if it does make a difference, prove it, I'd expect to see this stuff. For someone to ask for experiences and be challenged by the stuff is trolling.

 


Edited by Happy Camper - 3/25/11 at 11:16am
post #26 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Erik View Post

Turn&cough, what makes you think you're a reliable judge of sound quality?

Try an unsighted test. If you're hearing the difference, you don't need to see the cable.


Isn't this a DBT-free forum to discuss the experiences of cables without being badgered by mods?

post #27 of 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post

 It is nonsense to speculate on what others should ear
 


I disagree.  There is no scientific theory to indicate a power cable should make a difference.  There are no actual measurements showing that a power cable can make a difference.  Therefore one has to wonder what exactly is causing people to perceive a difference.  I find it a remarkable phenomenon.  If some new technology permits us to measure some unknown properties and shows that there is a difference, I will graciously retract all positions against cables.

 

post #28 of 64

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by shamu144 View Post

Some interesting reading here on power cords: http://www.shunyata.com/Content/FAQ-Tech.html


There is zero content in there that could be qualified of "interesting". Unless marketing and pseudo technico babble is of interest to some of us. They make claims and do not substantiate those claims in any meaningful way.

post #29 of 64


And it is your right to disagree. You might have missed the last part of my sentence though: "but rather keep an open mind and maybe make some great discovery."
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ert View Post

I disagree.  There is no scientific theory to indicate a power cable should make a difference.  There are no actual measurements showing that a power cable can make a difference.  Therefore one has to wonder what exactly is causing people to perceive a difference.  I find it a remarkable phenomenon.  If some new technology permits us to measure some unknown properties and shows that there is a difference, I will graciously retract all positions against cables.

 



 

post #30 of 64

One of the often unmentioned fallacies of comparing the "sound" of two or more things is that memories of sounds are impossible to compare to things you are actually hearing.

 

Granted, you can take two very different sounding things like a Beyer DT990 Pro 80ohm and a Sony MDR-7502 and anyone can easily tell the difference.  And here's definitive and repeatable proof of the large difference.

 

graphCompare.php?graphType=0&graphID[]=2341&graphID[]=2241

 

But if you try to hear the difference between two things that may be very subtle, memory does not serve well enough.  If anyone with a "good

and "bad" sounding power cable would invite a friend over to help you do some blind A/B comparisons you'd see this yourself.

 

HeadRooms website and FR graph comparison tool is a great asset to folks that want to look beyond marketing hype.  But where are the graphs from cable manufacturers or the retailers that carry them?  I would be willing to make a large bet that such scientific evaluations have been made by those that could make a lot of money showing how superior their product is to the competition in a definitive and repeatable test.  And I'd double that bet that the results showed nothing more than that two different power cables had no effect on sound.


Edited by cswann1 - 3/25/11 at 3:02pm
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