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Audio Technica ATH- ES 10 Impressions Thread - Page 50

post #736 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by baronkatz View Post
 

I'm wondering how the bigger ESW10 and ESW11 compare to the W1000 and W1000X since they are all woodies. I'm wondering if either of those are just "portable versions" of the same thing. I really want to get my hands on the Ultrasone Signature DJ and Signature Pro. The Signature DJ's look like they might be similar in Sound Sig to the ES10s but in circumaural and much more comfortable and isolating form than the ES10s. I hope they aren't too much like my Edition 8s...

ESW10 had 40mm drivers.

 

ESW11 has 53mm drivers.

 

ESW9 has 42mm drivers.

 

and

 

ES10 has 53mm drivers.

 

In the ESW11 thread there are some comparisons with w1000 and w1000x. someone wrote that the esw11 had the same driver as one of the 1000 series.

post #737 of 862

The ES11 is also much more balanced sounding than the ES10 from my listening.  I think they(11's) are more refined, had one to buy but got used Sig Pro instead.  Close call though.

post #738 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by dallan View Post
 

I have es10, Ed8 and SigPro now.  My choice for best closed is not listed here but all are good.  The Ed8 and Sig Pro are significantly better than the ES10 both in detail and dynamics, basically they are a league above.  However the es10 is lighter and smaller, more portable as well as easier to deal with on the go.  So there are trade offs as usual.  For what it is the ES10 is great.

How do the ED8s and Sig Pro's differ? I find the Edition 8s have too much sub bass and not enough low and mid bass, they are deep but not punchy and way too coloured for my liking, especially the high pitched sound I hear in them. The ES10s are only a little bit bright, maybe at the limit for me, but the Edition 8s pass that limit. The ES10s are way more "Fun" than the Ed8's, they have better bass and better sound. I can't argue about the detail of the Edition 8s, but everything else just kills it. The ES10s are uncomfortable and have a bit of sibilance, both of which are a pain for extended listening sessions. I thought maybe the Sig Pro or Sig DJ would sound more similar to it and have the portability along with better comfort and isolation?

post #739 of 862

The Ed8 is more clear than the Sig Pro and has stronger subBass. The Ed8 is way more comfortable than the Sig Pro.  The Ed8 has a brighter upper end.  The Sig Pro, less comfortable but more balanced i am seeing.  Just got them and had to refurbish a bit(previous owner didn't release he was a smoker) so learning the sound now.  The mid and upper bass are more and the upper end slightly less.  Sub Bass not as strong.  

 

Both have similar sound, or house sound, just a slight tilt in presentation.  Hard for me to compare to the ES10 because although i like the ES10 it is just plain not on the same level.  The Sig Pro and Ed8 are just a notch below the W3000anv that i have but probably at least in the same league where as the ES10 is in more of a portable league between the esw9 and esw11.

post #740 of 862
Too many cans mentioned and so a lot can be said about all this..
Lets remember that Most cans can only be generalized because of the large physical difference of everyone's ears and that ears keep growing throughout your life so what your prefer now will not necessarily be the same years later..

Unfortunately for "baronkatz", his hearing is more sensitive to sibilants and so it deviates from the norm,
As I never herd anyone ever mentioned that the es10 is sibilants.
Yet I would agree that both the trebles and bass is elevated..

Also I have the ed8 and in no way can you compare the es10 bass anywhere near as good as the ed8..
Different higher league, yet what "he" experiences is true "To him"..
And him only so lets not have readers think that the es10 is sibilant or the ed8 sucks in any way..
He just needs a can with the signature that works for him,
And although the SIG pro may be that can, it is not what I would say as portable as the others.
Also I believe the perfect solution would be the esw11.
Rich textured bass and great delicate mids while being the ultimate non-sibilant can..
Yet even this can takes a back seat to my ed8 in palpable space and realism..
They remain one of my favorites.
Also I have to assume Bill-P cans are much much better than stock es10 so it is both an oddity and a rarity..
Whish I could compare but he is on other side of the country lol.
post #741 of 862

Haha, I now own a ATH-W1000 (non-X), and I can tell from the get-go that this headphone is just... perfect.

 

It's exactly what I wanted my ES10 to sound like. So when I get the ES10 back, I'll do some more comparisons, and probably adjust the sound (again).

 

Man, I wish I had known what the W1000 sounded like so that I could have avoided all of this. It's definitely perfect to my ears.

 

The only possible drawback is that it is a bit bass light. Bass has good impact, but no body, and is a bit on the leaner side. My modded DT770 Pro can easily beat the W1000 at bass. But tonal balance and overall smoothness/clarity of the sound is just so much higher on the W1000.

post #742 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx134 View Post

Too many cans mentioned and so a lot can be said about all this..
Lets remember that Most cans can only be generalized because of the large physical difference of everyone's ears and that ears keep growing throughout your life so what your prefer now will not necessarily be the same years later..

Unfortunately for "baronkatz", his hearing is more sensitive to sibilants and so it deviates from the norm,
As I never herd anyone ever mentioned that the es10 is sibilants.
Yet I would agree that both the trebles and bass is elevated..

Also I have the ed8 and in no way can you compare the es10 bass anywhere near as good as the ed8..
Different higher league, yet what "he" experiences is true "To him"..
And him only so lets not have readers think that the es10 is sibilant or the ed8 sucks in any way..
He just needs a can with the signature that works for him,
And although the SIG pro may be that can, it is not what I would say as portable as the others.
Also I believe the perfect solution would be the esw11.
Rich textured bass and great delicate mids while being the ultimate non-sibilant can..
Yet even this can takes a back seat to my ed8 in palpable space and realism..
They remain one of my favorites.
Also I have to assume Bill-P cans are much much better than stock es10 so it is both an oddity and a rarity..
Whish I could compare but he is on other side of the country lol.

The ES10s I find are much less sibilant than other headphones, in fact the sibilance is very minimal if non-existent. I am just sensitive to high pitched noises and it depends on the amp I listen to. If I listen straight out of my Nokia N9, then it never gets too bright, but if I listen from my Centerance Dacport, although the bass impact is much better, the headphones become a bit bright for my liking...

 

As far as bass goes, as I mentioned it's different, not better or worse. The Ed8 have a lot of rumbling sub-bass, like a subwoofer in your ear. It's not as punchy as the ES10 when I listen to EDM. I feel like the ED8's bass is more suited to things like Jazz, video games and movie watching (especially due to the S-Logic Pro that creates a surround sound environment). The ED8 for me has this sensory experience, excellent imaging and stereo separation, excellent isolation, the best design and build I have ever seen on headphones, etc... But the Bass is at the very lowest end like a subwoofer, and you don't get the punchy mid-bass (say as you would on a speaker woofer vs. a subwoofer) that you do on the ES10. When listening to EDM, that bass is more important as the beat of the song is in that bass and I need to hear that impact more, which I don't in the ED8 due to it being tuned more for sub-bass than mid-bass. I'm not the only one who thinks this, the guy who had the T5P at the meet sold his ED8 for that exact reason and then modified his T5P to be more "Punchy."

 

TBH, the Edition 8s are just too bright for me. What I mean by bright isn't just that they have an extention on the high notes, but that you get this almost high pitched noise. It's similar to when the transformer on a CRT TV is about to go. I can easily here this high pitched noise but many people including my mom, simply cannot. So I hear an am sensitive to that kind of extention, yes it makes it sound more transparent and clear, but it also adds an annoying and fatiguing quality to the music. This same thing happens with the DT770Pro 32Ohm LE that I have. I am sure it's my sensitivity but MANY people think Beyers and most Ultrasones are just too bright.

 

The ESW11 has been on my bucket list for a while but they are just so rare and hard to find. I don't know how they would beat my ES10s for EDM music as I have yet to hear a portable can that can. I love my ES10s, I just wish they were more comfortable. They are extremely portable (as all the ES and ESW series) and the most fun headphones I have in terms of sound. The best thing is they sound good with any music which I can't say for my other headphones and they sound good from any source unlike the Denon's and other headphones I have. If I could put my ES10 driver in the ED8 body, that would be amazing. If that's what the Sig Pro or more likely the Sig DJ is like, then I might definitely like it. Even though the ES10s are slightly brighter than the ESW9s, the ESW9s are more sibilant and have almost a reverb in the mids and highs that get so annoying. The ESW9s I listen to slow music and vocals acoustics, etc... on, where as ES10s are for EDM.

 

From my listening Bill's ES10s have really recessed bass and are brighter than stock. The mids do shine on it, but essentially he created something more similar to a portable W1000 as he described below. Even though I love the look and feel of the ED8s as well as the build, they are not as comfortable as the T5Ps, the W3000s, etc... I've heard though that the Sig series is much less comfortable. I could also put the Sig DJ driver in the Ed8? ;-) See what that gives me... That would be a cool mod I couldn't afford to do...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post
 

Haha, I now own a ATH-W1000 (non-X), and I can tell from the get-go that this headphone is just... perfect.

 

It's exactly what I wanted my ES10 to sound like. So when I get the ES10 back, I'll do some more comparisons, and probably adjust the sound (again).

 

Man, I wish I had known what the W1000 sounded like so that I could have avoided all of this. It's definitely perfect to my ears.

 

The only possible drawback is that it is a bit bass light. Bass has good impact, but no body, and is a bit on the leaner side. My modded DT770 Pro can easily beat the W1000 at bass. But tonal balance and overall smoothness/clarity of the sound is just so much higher on the W1000.

Maybe you can modify the W1000 to have more bass. I liked the W1000X but it was too bright and the W1000 was just right but lacked bass. Both of them were fairly comfortable but need the real leather pads from the W3000/W5000. You mentioned drilling the holes or something to make a possible port? Anyway I think my DT770Pro's are the most clear and transparent headphones I have ever heard. Way more than the W1000, W3000, and Edition 8s. HOWEVER, the DT770Pros are WAY brighter than all of those... Again it's hard to reach transparency without brightness, I want a non-bright headphone with excellent bass that's as transparent as the bright ones!


Edited by baronkatz - 3/8/14 at 11:00am
post #743 of 862

The W1000 stock ear pads are leather, actually... and they indeed make the sound brighter.

 

Want a W1000 with more bass? Slap the W1000X pleather ear pads on there. It provides a better seal. Better seal = better bass.

 

The trade-off is a much less airy sound since the poor seal of the leather pads allowed for a more spacious presentation. But... this is an ATH headphone. I wouldn't be going for spacious either way.

 

And it's still not a bass monster, but it's clean and clear enough.

post #744 of 862
 

 

 

Hi, could you explain how did you manage to get this look? What is exactly "sanding" process? And is it necessary to remove cups in order to do that process (how difficult is that?). Im thinking on getting ES10 to replace my es700 and i know how easily these both cans pick up scratches so i imagine if i get es10 i will need to do this after month or right away. thanks

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Edited by vincik - 3/9/14 at 1:37am
post #745 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincik View Post

Hi, could you explain how did you manage to get this look? What is exactly "sanding" process? And is it necessary to remove cups in order to do that process (how difficult is that?). Im thinking on getting ES10 to replace my es700 and i know how easily these both cans pick up scratches so i imagine if i get es10 i will need to do this after month or right away. thanks

 

Instead of sanding it to a matte finish, you could consider getting a clear plastic protector or something for it.

Or you could consider an ESW11LTD instead, since it doesn't scratch that easily and doesn't catch fingerprints easily. But the sound will be a little different from the ES10.

post #746 of 862

in Europe is no way to get ESW11LTD. I got lucky and discover, that one shop here has one pair of esw11 leather pads and is willing to down price for es10 a bit. Still overpriced as hell but what you can do if there is nothing else...audio technica is only over head headphones i feel comfortable to wear out. Mostly due to their low profile cups. But its not just their look. If you want a portables with noise isolation and clamping force enough to not fall down when doing some sport there is no higher tier in sound. I was comparing es10 to my es700 using fiio x3 and i liked es10 a bit more. It confirmed me what i read here, that es10 are V shaped and es700 are more balanced. But also es10 sounded clearer and they surprised me, how comfy they are. I would call them more comfortable than es700 (both with stock pads). Only thing concerning me was quite aggressive highs in some songs. I wonder what difference in highs could make those esw11 leather pads?


Edited by vincik - 3/9/14 at 4:06am
post #747 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by vincik View Post
 
 

 

 

Hi, could you explain how did you manage to get this look? What is exactly "sanding" process? And is it necessary to remove cups in order to do that process (how difficult is that?). Im thinking on getting ES10 to replace my es700 and i know how easily these both cans pick up scratches so i imagine if i get es10 i will need to do this after month or right away. thanks

 

Yeah, unfortunately, you do have to remove the cups in order to do this. It's not hard. Remove the ear pads, and you'll find 4 screws underneath each side. Unscrew them and the ear cups will pop right out.

 

I sanded using sandpaper at 220 grit, 400 grit, then 600 grit, and stopped at 1200 grit (going higher will just revert back to the original mirror finish). The trick is to wet the sandpaper a little bit to decrease friction.

 

Unfortunately, even sanding them to that finish won't prevent them from getting deep scratches. It'll only make the micro scratches less visible. The ES10 ear cups is so thin that they get scratched up easily. But it's exactly that thinness that allows bass to have the impact that you hear. I think total protection is only possible if you sand them to that finish and then use a protector or apply a clear coating on top to preserve the looks.


Edited by Bill-P - 3/9/14 at 9:24am
post #748 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by baronkatz View Post





I love my ES10s, I just wish they were more comfortable. They are extremely portable (as all the ES and ESW series) and the most fun headphones I have in terms of sound. ...
Again it's hard to reach transparency without brightness, I want a non-bright headphone with excellent bass that's as transparent as the bright ones!

Quote:
Originally Posted by vincik View Post

in Europe is no way to get ESW11LTD. I got lucky and discover, that one shop here has one pair of esw11 leather pads and is willing to down price for es10 a bit.

...Only thing concerning me was quite aggressive highs in some songs. I wonder what difference in highs could make those esw11 leather pads?

The solution for both of you is the esw11 pads...
post #749 of 862
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxx134 View Post



The solution for both of you is the esw11 pads...

Far from the solution. I have ESW11 pads on mine (I've never even used it with the original pads) and they are still uncomfortable for more than an hour or so of listening... My ESW9's are MUCH more comfortable. The ESW9s do have less clamping force though and the pads feel a lot "puffier and thicker" than the ESW11s, and no the ESW9 pads are not more comfortable than the ESW11s on the ES10... It's not as bad as the Sennheiser HD-IIs or Amperiors in terms of clamp or discomfort, but still pretty bad after a little while... This is my biggest gripe with them. I wish they were circumaural instead of supraaural... And don't tell me it can't be done with portables as Ultrasones are all fairly portable and are circumaurals for the most part...

 

That is also my gripe with the Grado's as they are some of the best sounding headphones I have ever heard and the most portable openbacks I have seen and a bargain for what they are. Unfortunately they feel cheap and are so uncomfortable... Manufacturers really underestimate how important comfort is, if you can't wear them comfortably, no matter how good they sound, you will tire of them hurting your ears physicaly which is almost as bad as them hurting your ear aurally...


Edited by baronkatz - 3/10/14 at 11:51am
post #750 of 862

You know... if you don't mind some slight modifications, you can either stretch the ES10 for a looser fit, or you can also disassemble the whole frame and stretch just the metal headband.

 

Though I must admit, the ESW11 ear pads are also not very comfortable. I think the most comfortable ear pads for the ES10 would be the ESW10LTD ear pads, but they are quite hard to get a hold of these days.

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