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Audio Technica ATH- ES 10 Impressions Thread - Page 47

post #691 of 869
I've been looking back at earlier posts about wood cup mods and such (from Martin), I'm curious if anyone has ever tried to install mod cups with open or partly open backs? Wonder if it would improve the sound stage without compromising the other aspects of the es10 we all know and love.
post #692 of 869
The es10 is designed like the es700 where there is very little room and alot damping material.
Think of its speaker like a "sealed" driver where as the esw11 is like a "bass-reflex" driver in that it has a port hole directly in back of unit.
Now, side by side, the drivers look EXACTLY the same .… with the white material around the edges, but the voice coils are tuned differently...
Also the yellow felt reflects this as the es10 yellow felt is a circular piece, while the esw11 is a "donut" shaped piece as it has a hole in middle so the rear of the driver "sees" the wood and the port hole on top..
Sooo when modding the es10 there would be more change due to how it was originally tuned with higher damping..
while the esw11 probably less affected or easier controlled when modding with larger cup like from say, Martin Audio..
That being said, member Bill-p further modded them further to even greater heights as they have more potential than the stock form wich is compromise for portability.

I would PM him for further info..
post #693 of 869
Interesting, I can certainly see how this would be an issue. So probably open back cans need to be tuned/hard-wired via voice coils to begin with, in order to get the right damping in that case...?
post #694 of 869

How is esw11 isolation vs es10?

post #695 of 869
The larger pads of esw11 help.
Not sure at all which is better at isolation as I dont have the es10 anymore to compare.
post #696 of 869

Just compared the ES700 and ESW11LTD yesterday at a local head-fi shop. Forgot to bring along my ES10 :X. Here are my brief impressions:

 

The ES700 definitely sounded more like the little brother of the ESW11LTD than the bigger brother of the ES7.

Lows: ES700 has more bass, but the bass on the ESW11LTD is slightly deeper.

Mids: Warmer mids on the ES700 (Partly affected by bass). The ESW11LTD has brighter and airier mids.

Highs: The highs on the ESW11LTD is a lot more prominent when compared to the ES700.

Apart from these. The soundstage of the ESW11LTD is bigger and it is cleaner sounding with better instrument separation.

The ES700 seems to have better isolation though. (Maybe cause of the clamp). The ESW11LTD has a much more aggressive signature compared to the ES700. But still, the ES700 is pretty capable and very good at that price.

 

Just pre-ordered the Fostex HP-A4 few weeks ago. Should be arriving in a week or so. Hope it pairs well with the ES10. :)
Also thinking of purchasing the new A900XLTD. Tried it and the sounded quite good. The price itself here is very very tempting.


Edited by lbbef - 1/3/14 at 7:27am
post #697 of 869

The ES10s are great. As has been said, the bass is very good on these, good for EDM and the like (not too boomy) and the highs are not bad either. More meat in the middle would be nice, but it really is hard to fault the sound of these for what they are (a portable). What can be faulted though is that they are just so damn uncomfortable for me (even with the ESW11 pads). I'm going to have to find something else soon. Looking at:
 

b&o h6

b&w p7

kef m500

philips fiedlio l2

sennheiser amperior

sennheiser momentum

 

Hmm... if the Bose QCs weren't so awful sounding I'd buy those just for the pillowy pads. I was impressed with everything about the amperior's except I preferred the sound of the momentums (which were not comfortable at all; dilemma). Haven't been able to try the first four yet. 

 

*sigh* finding balance a between comfort/sound quality/portability in this style of 'phone is indeed difficult. 


Edited by coolguyalex - 1/4/14 at 11:34pm
post #698 of 869
I own an ad900x and love the sound of it but sometimes wish there was more bass. Would the es10 be what I'm looking for? Does anyone who owns an es10 also have a Sony 7520 and how do they compare?
post #699 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by bubbl View Post

I own an ad900x and love the sound of it but sometimes wish there was more bass. Would the es10 be what I'm looking for? Does anyone who owns an es10 also have a Sony 7520 and how do they compare?

I know the feeling...I first had a pair of A900X and like you I was really craving more bass...the ES10 deliver sublime bass to my ears, and have been a perfect upgrade/pairing for the A900X. I found some used for 210 dollars, which was a kinder and gentler introduction to my wallet.

I've not found anyone who can compare the 7520 and es10, and was also considering the Sony cans in my search. My impression is that they are more neutral, monitor like cans, based on the reviews, but with great detail. I will look for some in the headphone stores when I return to Tokyo next week, and see if I can do more comparison work for myself.
post #700 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill-P View Post
 

 

 

 

If you ask me, the matte texture on the ES10 just looks so much better! I wonder why Audio Technica didn't sell them like this.

 

Side note: I forgot to include the dampening foam on one of the cup, and the sound immediately became muddled, with smaller soundstage. Adding that foam back in helped tremendously. Looks like I can mod the dampening foam for some interesting effects. Hmm...

 

Bill, you should really contact Audio Technica of your mod here. I would buy the matte version in a minute ! You selling? ;)

post #701 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by zackzack View Post
 

 

Bill, you should really contact Audio Technica of your mod here. I would buy the matte version in a minute ! You selling? ;)

 

It seems like the ES10 are no longer in production. The inventory of ES10s has been steadily dropping to almost nil in every shop and seller, and I've not heard any reliable indication that they will make any more ES10 models. A further indication that the supply line is drying up is that the ES10 have been heavily discounted by most online sellers, now retailing for about half the MSRP value of ~$600, indicating that they are clearing their inventory. If they don't make any more ES10, I fear that they will not make any more portable cans with the 53mm drivers (all their latest releases use the 42mm drivers)…of course, this would make the ES10 highly collectible in the future. Does anyone have any insider info with A-T in order to confirm/deny this perception?


Edited by JHern - 1/12/14 at 11:19pm
post #702 of 869
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHern View Post
 

 

It seems like the ES10 are no longer in production. The inventory of ES10s has been steadily dropping to almost nil in every shop and seller, and I've not heard any reliable indication that they will make any more ES10 models. A further indication that the supply line is drying up is that the ES10 have been heavily discounted by most online sellers, now retailing for about half the MSRP value of ~$600, indicating that they are clearing their inventory. If they don't make any more ES10, I fear that they will not make any more portable cans with the 53mm drivers (all their latest releases use the 42mm drivers)…of course, this would make the ES10 highly collectible in the future. Does anyone have any insider info with A-T in order to confirm/deny this perception?


Not sure if it's out of production but according to AT's website, it's still available:
https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=114

If it's out of production, it will show "生産完了" like on the ESW11LTD page:

https://www.audio-technica.co.jp/atj/show_model.php?modelId=2261

 

When it's out of production we may be able to expect a new upgrade to the ES10. (Like what happened to the CK100PRO > IM series)

 

There are still quite a few portable AT headphones that are using the 53mm driver:

ESW11LTD

WS99

WS55X

PRO500MK2

PRO700MK2

So I think they will still be utilising the 53mm driver in their future portables.

 

Also, I don't think that they will just abandon the Earsuit series like this.

They have made many capable, popular and pretty famed headphones that were under this series. (ES7, ES700, ESW9, ES10, ESW11LTD, ESW10JPN, etc)

Even though AT has the other Solid Bass series, but in terms of performance, I don't think the Solid Bass series can top the Earsuit series.

Personally, I really love the tuning of the Earsuit series compared to the Solid Bass series.

 

What I really find really pitiful is that the ES10 is a solid performer, highly rated by most people who try it. But it doesn't seem to be popular with many. It really pains me to see that people are not aware of this high end portable. I always see people using the Momemtum, M100, etc... In this short 2 years that I've been using the ES10, the only three pairs of ES10 that I've seen is:

1) Mine (Used Pair)

2) Mine (New Pair)

3) Someone else's (During a head-fi meet)

Not sure if it's because of the high price overseas? Or maybe the lack of marketing by AT? Or maybe the love hate relation with AT?

 

But I really do hope that AT can come up with a new Top Of The Line high end portable that can match (ESW11LTD) or even better the performance and design of the ES10.

And I really do hope that AT will continue with their super competitive new pricing as seen in the IM series and A900XLTD.

 

The ES10 will always be in my heart. It's the first headphone that really pulled me into the world of audiophiles when I was looking for good audio quality. In order to maximise the potential of this headphone, it introduced me to various AMPs, DACs, etc... But we still have to move on one day. Even though I'm building a nice desktop setup for home use, I'll never forget the love I had with my ES10. :)

post #703 of 869

Well, the ES10 seem to be on sale again in Japan. But that's not unusual. When I bought my pair in November 2011, it was on sale and I also used saved points on Yodobashi from when I lived in Japan in 2010, so I paid around 28 000 yen...

Yodobashi Camera

 

BIC Camera

 

 

The ES10 is still featured on the ATH homepage. Former headphone model ES7 is no longer there. Other ES models featured are ES3, ES500, ES700, ES88 & ESW9.
 

post #704 of 869

Thanks for the reply, this makes good sense and calms my fears a bit. I'd be curious to see what they come up with next in the Earsuit series (ES12?). Perhaps they already have something in the works, but haven't released any info.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lbbef View Post
 

What I really find really pitiful is that the ES10 is a solid performer, highly rated by most people who try it. But it doesn't seem to be popular with many. It really pains me to see that people are not aware of this high end portable. I always see people using the Momemtum, M100, etc... In this short 2 years that I've been using the ES10, the only three pairs of ES10 that I've seen is:

1) Mine (Used Pair)

2) Mine (New Pair)

3) Someone else's (During a head-fi meet)

Not sure if it's because of the high price overseas? Or maybe the lack of marketing by AT? Or maybe the love hate relation with AT?

 

Much agreed, the ES10 are certainly in a higher league than the Momentum, etc.. And while they are ostensibly twice the price (i.e., MSRP $600 as opposed to $300 for the Momentum, etc.), the ES10 can be found at hugely marked down prices these days, similar in cost to the Momentums, but still you see many going for the Sennheisers instead of the higher grade Earsuits.

 

It seems to me that Sennheiser has higher-octane marketing and promotions, advertisements of hip-looking guys and gals with Momentum cans on their heads, clever giveaway sweepstakes promoted on the front page of head-fi.org, etc., etc.. Audio-Technica is more of an otaku* outfit, you can expect excellent quality and obsessive attention to detail, but not so much in the way of savvy promotions that connect with western consumers**. The sound signature of AT cans is often aimed at the Japanese listener, who has a distinct taste (although the ES10 certainly don't qualify as a Japanese-sound). Also, as you mentioned it seems clear that Sennheiser is able to get their cans into every international market without huge mark-ups along the way, unlike Audio-Technica whose prices vary by more than a factor of 2 depending on the country. In fact, I probably wouldn't know anything about AT's lineup if it weren't for the fact that I live in Tokyo, and all the stores have great AT displays which got me hooked into their lineup (eventually leading to the ES10 for portable).

 

Audio-Technica Earsuits seem to have a few issues with comfort for some ear sizes and shapes, the biggest complaint you hear about the ES10 is that they are extremely uncomfortable after wearing for a relatively short time, and these reports are all over the internet and very likely ward off potential customers. They could upgrade a couple things, making the ES10 just slightly more expensive, but having a huge influence on over all quality and reputation…here is a potential list of upgrades for a proposed ES12 model that could swing the high-end portable market in Audio-Technica's favor:

1) The ESW11LTD lambskin replacement pads sell for JPY3500 in Japan…I'm really not sure why they weren't stock on the ES10 at this price point (probably only ~JPY1500 increase in cost from the pleather pads at the retail end). Lambskins need to be stock on the ES12s.

2) With the ear pads, they might consider making them slightly larger circumference and take some of the clamping force away from the inner radius of the pads by increasing the slope/angle of the inner frame just a tad and/or thickening the padding toward the outer circumference (the inside clamping force seems to be the main source of the discomfort for many).

3) The ES10 have a flimsy-looking and -feeling cable, they could spend a tiny bit more and have something that inspires more confidence. Detachable cable seems like a no-brainer for future upgrades.

4) Detachable cable also allows the possibility to sell an additional accessorized swappable cable that includes a microphone for those customers where a mic is a must-have. Momentums have mics, I'll bet many consumers would choose them over the ES for this reason alone (as silly as it may seem to the audio purist).

 

Anyways, one can only hope that maybe Audio-Technica reads threads like this one, and learns about potential ideas for upgrading the ES series, and getting them over the hump in terms of reputation and marketing.

 

*otaku is Japanese for geek

**a common problem among many small-size Japanese firms


Edited by JHern - 1/13/14 at 1:06am
post #705 of 869
Put some ESW9 pads on my ES10s, much better. Overall more balanced sound
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