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This DAC/AMP (USB): any of these decent enough?

post #1 of 4
Thread Starter 
I'll just get this out of the way first: I'm by no means an audiophile, and I don't have the money to become one. So all I'm looking for is something that will offer really "nice" sound (by all of your standards), room to be upgraded (so OpA driven would be nice) and ability to drive IEMs between 18-60Ohm. I've got my SE210s plugged into this low-end Yamaha receiver, which at least has Elnas, and I have seriously been missing out by listening to music right out of my computer's 1/8" jacks!

Been wanting to break into the DIY amp scene for about 1/2 a year now, but have been carefully researching to try and find the best option for me to go with based on my low budget... I hadn't planned on a DAC but figured it might be a better option since I've only got the VIA VT2020 onboard codec on my motherboard, which I think is quite nice, but obviously is no comparison to discrete!

I'm able to get this one for cheaper than listed, after talking to them, and it falls with in my ~$60 budget:
http://cgi.ebay.com/220473018958
500

While I can't say for sure if the Burr Brown chip is real, I'm not too worried since it is only a 16bit 48KHz part and at some point I'd replace it anyhow (though a 16pin SOIC would be a big test of my abilities). I know, I don't need 24bit or likely even 192KHz, but we all like the headroom biggrin.gif

Anyways, the components all seem to be of decent quality, at least as far as the primary caps go, as I'm not familiar enough with resistors (they 1% metal film?) or the the small caps. The smaller electrolytics are all Matsushita (no clue on their series)

I would have liked a "volume control" but I assume that is taken care of via Windows Volume Panel. I'm mainly looking for something I can replace OpAs on, and/or caps, but this seems to already have the latter covered enough for the meantime.


Or would this be a better choice? (I'd have to make a L/R to 1/8" adapter, but that isn't a problem)
http://cgi.ebay.com/120690919435

Not USB, uses 2pin S/PDIF, which I have the output header on my motherboard for.... Quite a bit cheaper and also has at least 24bit 96KHz


Any and all suggestions are welcome. I'm still fine with going with a standalone HP amp as well, doesn't have to be portable as it'd be used 95% of the time here at my desktop computer.

Thanks!

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post #2 of 4

Not sure how much stuff is available in the $60 range, but you should consider the FiiO E7 and NuForce Icon Mobile, both of which are probably available used close to that price.  (the E7 is listed in the FS forums for $75 right now).  I've never heard either... but based on what I've seen they're quite decent small complete packages. 

 

As far as the one you found on eBay... my Fubar DAC and total bithead are based off the PCM2702 and I've always liked the sound of em, especially with better opamps (currently running OPA627 in the fubar).  I'd doubt he's using fake parts, he seems to sell quite a bit of higher end audio parts and boards, but you never know.  The NE5532 opamp he's using is also quite decent for audio... it's been around for decades (was probably one of the first designed for audio).  It has higher power capabilities than most opamps by themselves, so it's pretty decent in a simple non-buffered circuit, even with low impedance phones.  You'll find that opamp in all kinds of gear made in the last 20+ years, usually the better gear :). 

 

One thing to remember... with that eBay board you'll still be finding a power supply and case to use with it.  The FiiO and NuForce devices are ready to go. 

 

Also devices without volume controls CAN be controlled with your computers mixer, but it'll be impossible to get bit perfect audio since the simple volume control change has to alter the bits.

 

 

post #3 of 4
Thread Starter 
I thought about a FiiO, but not the E7 since it was higher than I was after, and the NuForce as well :\ One reason I was sort of staying away from units like the FiiO though, is because I would like to tinker around and/or replace components with higher quality ones at some point biggrin.gif Not sure how 'mod friendly' the NuForce is though.

I would most likely use that 2702 for a long time, and for all I know, I'd end up not changing it out anyways :P I do have some 96KHz FLAC albums though, which is the only reason I'd ever really want to swap it. As for why I thought MAYBE it was a fake is the coating on the chip makes it look a lil fishy (and cheap). Tthat might just be a protective layer over the whole assembly after they put on some of the SMT components *shrug* As for the OpAs, it wasn't so much that they were 5532s, but more so that I don't recognize that manufacturer logo and figured it might be a less-than-stellar quality 'generic' one haha

While the case I've got around here which I wanted to use wouldn't clear those power caps, I think I've got a few that would clear (all salvaged steel sheet-metal enclosures, like from CDRoms or PSUs). I've got a means to power it though, which is one thing I've been asking the seller about (and he might just be in charge of the eBay and not exactly know), but I'm not sure if I need to provide BOTH ±9V AC and ±15V AC. Or if I can get away with just the 15V like on the other (unassembled) kit I linked to? What I've got now is an assembly from a home-theater Powered Sub which the transformer is only tapped for ±28-30V for the main amp chip, and then the PCB has ±16V for the four BA4558N OpAs. All the readings were taken with there being no load on the circuit, since i have no way TO load it, but I don't see that 16V dropping below 12V when powering this thing... I've got another transformer kicking around, but I don't know enough about AC to understand how the transformers with 5 or 6 legs work :\ I do have $30 above what I have set aside for a DAC or AMP, but it was going to be for a new soldering iron. If what I have simply won't work for powering this though, then I'd rather have audio than a new iron, as I can make due with the crappy iron I've been using haha

Since I run Windows 7, from my understanding, I would need WASAPI drivers to get Bit Perfect. But that might just be in regards to using a sound card or onboard chip (which the VT2020 does not support WASAPI). But again, I'm not aiming for audio quality on par with what you all have, since my SE210s aren't exactly a top shelf item lol I've put up with using Windows method since Windows 95 (Win 3.11 didn't have it), so I think I'll live for awhile longer haha

Hell I don't know though! If I get this $125, I might just end up getting a XONAR STX as I would REALLY like! Or if by some miracle I get the other $100 as well, I'll get a XENSE and be in Audio Noobvana biggrin.gif

Either way I appreciate the info and keep it comin! No matter what route I take it'll be of use to me, or to someone I can hopefully help in return sometime down the road!

EDIT: OK Looks like I JUST got a response!
"The board need two SEPARATE AC input, one is 15V-0-15V, another is 0-9V. The 15Vx2 is for analog portion, and 0-9v is for digital portion."

So I'm going to have to see if I can figure out where/how to get 9v :P I've got one 25x30 Proto board left, so I might be able to build that circuit... if I can figure out how to that is lol redface.gif
post #4 of 4

Should be fairly easy to get +- 9v from a single +-15v PSU.  Most 9volt regulators work with up to 35volts in.  The difference in voltage is usually converted into heat (you'll likely want some heatsinks to put on the regulators).  So basically if you have a +-15 volt supply (or even the 28-30v supply) you can use a simple regulator circuit (with some caps for filtering) and be good to go. 

 

The PSU in my DIY amp is very simple.  It's just a center tapped transformer pumped through an ac/dc rectifier into some filter caps then into some voltage regulators and then some more filter caps at the end.  Gives very clean stable power.  Nothing fancy, but the current draw on headphones amps is low enough that the supply stays steady under the highest possible loads.  Basically it's this http://www.researchcell.com/electronics/voltage-regulator-circuit/ but twice (for + and -). 

 

You'll see far more complicated PSU circuits online for audio applications.  Some will add opamp buffers that might give slightly steadier rails among many other circuit additions... I tested my PSU with a scope powering my headphone amp and I was unable to get any noticeable blips in the voltage.  I did notice some small blips when powering a speaker amp, but I'm sure the current draw on that was right at or even above the specs on the regulators when the blips happened.  For comparisons sake, batteries dropped voltage worse than my PSU under load (although they did it cleaner).

 

 

You can definitely get fancy with power supplies and amplifier circuits, but even the basic stuff can work and sound quite nice.  I've found over the years that once you get into fairly "low end" dedicated DAC and AMP you don't gain a whole lot going up to the very high end stuff.  It's the 90-10 rule... the first 90% is easy and cheap, the last 10% is what makes someone an audiophile and broke :).  Headphone quality increases much faster with price than sources and amps. 

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