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Prospecting Audiophile - Page 4

post #46 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I guess we have to thank james444 - a head-fier I quite like and respect, BTW - for the introduction of the term "timbre", a term that has somehow become fashionable (almost mandatory now when discussing good SQ) and adopted by a few H-fiers in the last few months. Apparently, DD IEMs offer the best "timbre". My very limited experience tells me this isn't necessarily so but, you know, the word gets round and then certain things suddenly become facts - much like the not so infrequent view that custom IEMs destroy all universals when it comes to SQ. When james444 'introduced' the term I didn't have a problem with it but now, to me, it's almost become like the term 'audiophile', a term that makes me cringe every time I see it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I agree with your entire post.

 

Uh-oh, I wasn't aware that using the term "timbre" would inflict such hardship on trusty fellow members. If I'd known beforehand I certainly would have settled for more established and useful terms like "accuracy" and "balance". wink.gif Anyway, let me state in my defense that the term has been right here in this Head-Fi glossary since 2007.

 

On a more serious note, IMO there's no cure for the inflationary (mis)use of certain terms, so we'll just have to live with it. But tbo, reading in some posts that IEM A have more timbre than IEM B makes me cringe, too.

 

Speaking of which, I don't think I would have bought and subsequently given away several BA IEMs (even pretty expensive ones like the CK100) just for the sake of proving a point. And I'm not claiming that DDs like the FX700 or EX1000 have more natural timbre than all BAs, but definitely than the ones I've heard. However, some BAs like the vented Final Audios or even the SM3 are pretty good, so I've not given up hope yet. In fact I'm pretty tempted by the W4 right now. But I'm certainly not going to venture into customs territorium unless I've heard a pair of universal BAs that win me over in this regard, since I'm not trusting the logic by which custom BAs should magically have more natural timbre than their proper fitted universal counterparts.

post #47 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by albau View Post

I got my W3 brand new from the authorized dealer for $300 and still think they are not worth even that. 
 



You got the W3 for $300, great! (even if they're not worth $300 in your view), others got the Panasonics for about $100 and even less recently. But you spoke of the original price of the Panasonics being $250 and I spoke of the original W3 being $400, so making it seem like the Panasonics were $250 and W3s $300 is just not true and it sounds somewhat misleading.

In the UK, BTW, right now on Amazon.co.uk the Panasonics are being sold for £121.51 ($195) and the W3 for £320 ($514)


Edited by music_4321 - 3/13/11 at 9:47am
post #48 of 66


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Uh-oh, I wasn't aware that using the term "timbre" would inflict such hardship on trusty fellow members. If I'd known beforehand I certainly would have settled for more established and useful terms like "accuracy" and "balance". wink.gif Anyway, let me state in my defense that the term has been right here in this Head-Fi glossary since 2007.

 

Are you sure it wasn't you who compiled the 2007 Head-fi glossary and simply resurrected the term "timbre" sometime in 2010?   :)

post #49 of 66

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Uh-oh, I wasn't aware that using the term "timbre" would inflict such hardship on trusty fellow members. If I'd known beforehand I certainly would have settled for more established and useful terms like "accuracy" and "balance". wink.gif Anyway, let me state in my defense that the term has been right here in this Head-Fi glossary since 2007.

 

On a more serious note, IMO there's no cure for the inflationary (mis)use of certain terms, so we'll just have to live with it. But tbo, reading in some posts that IEM A have more timbre than IEM B makes me cringe, too.

 

Speaking of which, I don't think I would have bought and subsequently given away several BA IEMs (even pretty expensive ones like the CK100) just for the sake of proving a point. And I'm not claiming that DDs like the FX700 or EX1000 have more natural timbre than all BAs, but definitely than the ones I've heard. However, some BAs like the vented Final Audios or even the SM3 are pretty good, so I've not given up hope yet. In fact I'm pretty tempted by the W4 right now. But I'm certainly not going to venture into customs territorium unless I've heard a pair of universal BAs that win me over in this regard, since I'm not trusting the logic by which custom BAs should magically have more natural timbre than their proper fitted universal counterparts.


I think some people (not saying you) have taken timbre to be the be-all-end-all, or something magical that it is not.  Timber is defined/explained here and IMO, timbre is affected by coloration/frequency response as much as note decay.  It seems like again, timbre, as anything else is going to be somewhat opinion/perspective.  

 

And that is my opinion, so feel free to disagree bigsmile_face.gif


Edited by average_joe - 3/13/11 at 10:05am
post #50 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I think some people (not saying you) have taken timbre to be the be-all-end-all, or something magical that it is not.  Timber is defined/explained here and IMO, timbre is affected by coloration/frequency response as much as note decay.  It seems like again, timbre, as anything else is going to be somewhat opinion/perspective.  

 

And that is my opinion, so feel free to disagree bigsmile_face.gif


Timber: http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0864960#m_en_gb0864960

 

Timbre: http://oxforddictionaries.com/view/entry/m_en_gb0865060#m_en_gb0865060

 

:)

 

post #51 of 66

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by albau View Post


Like others said it's not hype. It's just that to many people Panas sound excellent with rock. Nobody claimed that HJE like say W4 are good with all kinds of music or that they lack serious drawbacks. In fact HJE with their very pronounced V-curve that results in sometimes exaggerated bass and sometimes harsh treble and sometimes distant mids are the anathema of the holly trinity of proper headfier - balance, neutrality and control. To some this understandibly totally kills Panas but some like myself appreciate their fast and fun "hooligan" signature aided by rather intimate but deep soundstage with seductive instrument separation. All this works wonderfully when applied to such a hooligan and musically sloppy genre as rock. On the other hand Panas ruin symphonic music or most kinds of classic music for the matter. Modern pop, especially female like Lady Gaga, with its overly bright, processed and distorted mastering totally sucks on Panas. HJE's are very sensitive to the source and garbage-in-garbage-out should be taken seriously with them.

 

Also don't forget that Panas initial price which held for quite some time was $250 which indeed puts them into the same league as MTPG, W2 and close to W3. To me when  TF10 can be had for $180 (and occasionally less than $100), HJE for $100, RE-0 for less than $100 and Audeos PFE and DBA-02 for $150 there's little justification for the Westone (even W4), Monster, Earsonics and Sennheiser prices for their universal IEMs. 

 


Couldn't agree more with the entire post. Spot on for describing its flaws and advantages. It seems that people feel threatened when a cheap earphone by the same company which made their refrigerator can do certain genres better than their expensive beloved "audiophile quality" IEMs rolleyes.gif no offense. I used to think so too.

 

post #52 of 66

I haven't personally seen any Panasonic fridges, but I do know that 'Lumix' cameras ain't so bad and that 'Technics' turntables weren't that bad, either.

post #53 of 66


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tuahogary View Post

 


Couldn't agree more with the entire post. Spot on for describing its flaws and advantages. It seems that people feel threatened when a cheap earphone by the same company which made their refrigerator can do certain genres better than their expensive beloved "audiophile quality" IEMs rolleyes.gif no offense. I used to think so too.

 


 

I'm not sure if this is directed at me but I certainly don't feel threatened; I just have a healthy skepticism about an $80 IEM doing an entire genre of music better than top tier BA's.  Rock is a pretty encompassing term.  If they live up to the hype, so be it.

 

I have the new Atrio (mg7) M5's, which are a very nice dynamic driver IEM I got for a few bucks over a hundred.  They do certain songs/recordings/styles of rock better than my W3 but it's a far cry of doing the entire genre better.  For me the W3 offers a very visceral experience with hard/sleaze rock, which I very much enjoy.  It sounds, from these descriptions, that the pannies will possibly offer a similar experience, maybe even more so but will definitely limit their appeal to certain sub-genres of rock.

 

EDIT: One thing I'm scared of is reading yet another description of an IEM that makes me want to buy them.  I'm refusing to read the EX1000 and FX700 reviews.  Pannies will be here later this week.  I think this officially qualifies as a collection.




 

 


Edited by shotgunshane - 3/13/11 at 12:12pm
post #54 of 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by music_4321 View Post

I haven't personally seen any Panasonic fridges, but I do know that 'Lumix' cameras ain't so bad and that 'Technics' turntables weren't that bad, either.



Technics 1200 model turntables are very nice!


Edited by shotgunshane - 3/13/11 at 11:43am
post #55 of 66

High end Panasonic men's shavers are my favorites. They always have some meaningful technical innovation like no others (supersonic motors, super fine foil, wet/dry, etc.) but then mar it with some minor execution faults. Same with their cameras which normally march to the different beat than all others - lots of innovation like 4/3 and in-camera aberration corrections, make their own sensors, fast and wide Leica optics, sturdy build, functionality, speed and user control but also noisy at high ISOs and always have some usability lapses. I think Pana HJE900 bear same Panasonic house style. 

post #56 of 66

Apologies if my post have a negative tone to them. I must sound like a grumpy old man! tongue.gif But yeah, they are great for rock rock as in music inspired by the electric guitar. Not sure about alternative rock as electric guitars have less influence on them.

 

Panasonic fridges are popular in Europe and Asia, perhaps less so in USA?

post #57 of 66

^^ Hey, I don't live in the UK anymore but still live in western Europe and I don't remember ever seeing any Panasonic fridges - honestly. Perhaps that's because I've never been much into fridges?  :)  I've bought 2 in the last 20 years, though, an 'AEG' & a 'Miele'.  :)

post #58 of 66

Frankly I never saw Panasonic fridges here is US either though there are other readily available weired Pana branded artifacts like vacs, AC, microwaves, mixers and, believe it or not, vibrators. Latter I came across through some online ad, maybe these were fakes but the store itself seemed to be legit. 

post #59 of 66

I used to remember when all fridges were either branded Panasonic or National (another Japanese company) back in Asia then Panasonic bought them over and everything changed to Panasonics! lol.. Perhaps it's not that popular anymore.. Fine. My remark isn't that accurate after all! rolleyes.gif

post #60 of 66

Well, by now the OP probably knows everything he always wanted to know about fridges, but was afraid to ask. tongue.gif

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