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Neutral and detailed DAC <$1500 to go with my K702's? - Page 4

post #46 of 60

a plug for the CIA VDA2 with VAC1 PSU. well under your budget but (search threads here and/or elsewhere) competitive with what has been mentioned in your thread here.

post #47 of 60

If we are using graphs to decide whether something is neutral I guess the op should buy an asus stx which has flatter fr response, better snr and lower thd.

Also the audio-gd uses pcm1704 which cause the roll off yet they are still very highly regarded.

I was also not saying that because a majority like it that it is good, but rather that I have not seen a single negative review.


Edited by jackmccabe - 3/19/11 at 2:22pm
post #48 of 60



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccabe View Post

If we are using graphs to decide whether something is neutral I guess the op should buy an asus stx which has flatter fr response, better snr and lower thd.

 

Does the OP want a computer based solution ?, if so that would be a good suggestion and the money saved would buy a lot of music too

 

 

Also the audio-gd uses pcm1704 which cause the roll off yet they are still very highly regarded.

 

Who told you that ? - The PCM1704 is one of the most accurate multibit DAC chips ever made, numerous manufacturers use(d) them and manage to get a flat FR device out of it.

 

 

I was also not saying that because a majority like it that it is good, but rather that I have not seen a single negative review.

 

I refer the honourable member to the answer I gave earlier



 


Edited by nick_charles - 3/19/11 at 4:40pm
post #49 of 60

The PCM1704 is a NOS DAC so the roll off is more than that of an OS DAC.

The audio-gd reference 7 has such slight roll off (0.5db at 12khz) that it is not noticeable.

This slight roll off is on purpose as it creates a smoother more analog sound.

 

I personally do not believe that dac's make nearly as much difference as everyone makes out, personally I feel headphones make the biggest difference.

post #50 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccabe View Post

The PCM1704 is a NOS DAC so the roll off is more than that of an OS DAC.

 

From the TI/BB documents "the PCM1704 supports 8X oversampling" - in NOS mode it is mediocre but Audio-GD don't use it in NOS mode.

 

 

The audio-gd reference 7 has such slight roll off (0.5db at 12khz) that it is not noticeable.

This slight roll off is on purpose as it creates a smoother more analog sound.

 

It is not noticeable but it makes it sound different ?

 

What does "more analog" even mean,  the recreated waveform is output as a continuously changing voltage like any line-out , how can it be any more or any less analog ? 

 

I personally do not believe that dac's make nearly as much difference as everyone makes out, personally I feel headphones make the biggest difference.

 

 

Agreed phones/speakers are the most influential components by a substantial margin



 

post #51 of 60

By "analog" I mean sound more like vinyl which many people find pleasing.

Also the reference 7 can be put in NOS mode as well as 8x oversampling.

 

I discovered the audio0-gd also has an analog filter as well, which purposely adds slight roll-off.

Personally I do not think this actually makes much off a difference but then I have never heard it with and without an analog filter.

 

post #52 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccabe View Post

By "analog" I mean sound more like vinyl which many people find pleasing.

Also the reference 7 can be put in NOS mode as well as 8x oversampling.

 

I discovered the audio0-gd also has an analog filter as well, which purposely adds slight roll-off.

Personally I do not think this actually makes much off a difference but then I have never heard it with and without an analog filter.

 


So are you no longer advocating going with a cheaper dac and referring OP to a Ref7? What vinyl do you listen to, and which dacs did you find too "digital" in comparison? Did you find 8x oversampling made a difference compared to other dacs with no oversampling? I'm just curious because I have a few dacs all with different chips, and different output stages, as well as filters/no filters.

 

post #53 of 60

I still believe the op should upgrade his headphones and get a cheaper dac.

I found the benchmark dac-1 a bit unnatural and overpriced.

I have a technics sp10 with a jelco 750l on a slate base and it sounds excellent.


Edited by jackmccabe - 3/22/11 at 10:04am
post #54 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmccabe View Post

By "analog" I mean sound more like vinyl which many people find pleasing.



I never liked vinyl very much because of the surface noise and lack of dynamic range.  Back in the day, I used a DBX 118 to help with both.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has a vinyl rig that is devoid of surface noise?   I know you get used to it, but it remains an unwanted artifact, like FM hiss.

 

USG

post #55 of 60
Quote:
Originally Posted by upstateguy View Post





I never liked vinyl very much because of the surface noise and lack of dynamic range. 

 

The noise killed vinyl for me , or rather hearing digital for the first time in 1984 and the lack of noise did it, I stopped buying LPs almost imediately, I always disliked the noise (rumble, hum, hiss etc) but when I realised I did not have to live with it.....

 

 

Back in the day, I used a DBX 118 to help with both.

 

I'm wondering if anyone has a vinyl rig that is devoid of surface noise?  

 

By definition no !, nobody at all.

 

If you mean audible, I doubt it, I suspect if you asked anyone to record the lead-in or a quiet section nobody could record 20 seconds that had no audible extraneous noise...

 

 

 

post #56 of 60

By vinyl-analog sounding you are looking for warm, open and spacious which isn't typically associated with digital devices.

post #57 of 60

My vinyl rig has very little surface noise, but generally it is about how clean the vinyl is and I use a very powerful diy vacuum record cleaner.

I am also very uptight about cleaning my records and turntable.

I definitely have many albums that have more than 20 seconds without audible noise, but I do listen to a lot of rock so it's hardly noticeable anyway.

post #58 of 60

Currently I am having a slight crisis as recently I built a buffalo II dac and it is seriously making me think twice about whether vinyl is worth the hassle or whether it sounds better.

Unfortunately I have not compared my vinyl rig to my digital rig as I need a new stylus, but currently I am very tempted to sell my vinyl's and invest in a higher end  digital system.

post #59 of 60

It is however an illusion as vinyl has a far inferior level of channel separation, i.e the separation between channels that the engineer carefully placed on the tapes and which humans use for spatial placement gets heavily compromised during the conversion to vinyl disc and playback, the two channels blend into each other much more, whilst on digital crosstalk is utterly insignificant, as for warm that would be even order harmonic distortion which is much higher and a marked treble roll-off, especially as you head towards the record label the phyiscs involved in dragging a rock through a canyon at increasingly tighterr curves, mean that the amplitude you can track declines markedly. It is like my greyhound mix (dog) he is fine and fast in a straight line or a gentle curve but when he tries to make a sharp turn to keep up with the border collie he falls over...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Graphicism View Post

By vinyl-analog sounding you are looking for warm, open and spacious which isn't typically associated with digital devices.



 

post #60 of 60

I own the beyer Dt 990 250 Sen HD580 And akg 701 To me they all generally sound the same.  other than the 701s have lean bass. 990s lil reaccessed mids. and the 580s mid range. all out of the same source they some what sound the same. except the 580s have a godly Midrange for Only trance. But when i put my cheap lil dac in the mix. wooo. You do notice a difference! Not a crazy one but enough to were you can explore your music more effectively.  I stuck between both the idea of a more expensive headphone or a better dac, though.  But The akgs always seem to have a hidden talent that seems to be unlocked by allowing more information( better source or dac) into the them. 

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