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Musiland MD30 is out (musilol)

post #1 of 33
Thread Starter 
Musilol Musiland MD30 will be out...soon...ish...maybe..

Looks like the boxes have been made and what not... No official word from the moderator who posted them on the release date though. Looks like a slightly out of focus pic of the box actually...

http://bbs.musiland.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10626&extra=page%3D1&page=1 (it also looks like the thread is now a QA to some extent ).

Aren't you excited?
Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr 
some fun facts about md11 that might also be applicable to md30
I am and I would like to assure Musiland that so is everyone else!


Will we be able to enjoy the successor of the epic MD11 with:
a) buggy drivers and firmware without change logs or proper testing/QM or release management or installation instructions or manuals to reflect the changes in operation,
b) high noise floor due to PSU issues,
c) intermittently working power button and the
d) fiddly navigation with 1 overloaded jog dial doing everything. The jog dial that has to be authoritatively gripped holding your hand directly opposite it to turn (otherwise it slips) (and is overloaded with to nearly 0 usability with all actions being via it)
e) instability at high ambient temperatures (freezes).
f) overstated specs? quoting not measured specs, but DAC chip specs - see b), extrapolate the effects to SNR biggrin.gif. (also, half of Soomal's RMAA pics are for some reason gone now and only the 44.1k measurements are left up)
g) nearly 100mv DC offset out on line. Goes really well with your directly coupled amps (it really doesn't)!
h) a nice looking box with 0 corner strength and undecipherable marketing gibberish on it.
i) sound quality severely degrades for higher impedance headphones (e.g. GMP450 PRO), sound sig becomes mids centric and hollow. Distortion/noise floor also raise significantly to make things even worse
j) Polished metal conductive and GROUNDED front plate. Touch the USB cable while touching the plate to be pleasantly surprised.
k) HP out has 150mv of DC on it... frown.gif fail.
....

?

All this, for only $600 RRP + local dealer markup and shipping! (plus the approximate $100 on you sending a couple of units back to hopefully get a working one, because of epic QA, although I guess you could have a good seller who's honest and all...)


What's there not to be excited about?
The DC offset thing would apply to both line and bal outs...and probably be more pronounced on XLR out if it's there frown.gif
Now these would be funny, if they weren't legitimate issues for MD11 users (see the MD11 thread here and the issues in the musiland BBS), and I really hope they spent months in delaying MD30 fixing those. K?

You can read the original specs from the old post http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Index/show/id/97 .

According to the poster/moderator at their BBS, It also looks like the HP section will not be super-adjustable like their HP11...mmm...

At this point, I should really stop flaming them, before head-fi gets retali-hacked for it. biggrin.gif
Edited by svyr - 4/23/11 at 7:03am
post #2 of 33
Thread Starter 
http://bbs.musiland.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10626&extra=page%3D1&page=3
allegedly it will be out this month, quite possibly in the next 2 weeks (according to the supermod)

for the laughs see posts 22 and "MD30, the appearance of a shame!!! Customer service, What could be improved" (bad google translation, but you get the point) and 42 "I hope the state can do new music listing of quality control, which is the key" biggrin.gif
post #3 of 33
Thread Starter 
Musiland marketing sure is curious http://bbs.musiland.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10708&extra=page%3D1 (see post 30 - out next week, no announcements anywhere or pre-order or marketing of any kind).
post #4 of 33
Thread Starter 
also rumours of MD50. 5980 Chinese yuan = 910.15600 USD lol... http://bbs.musiland.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10703&extra=page%3D1 post 2.
post #5 of 33

What's the point of this thread, if you don't mind me asking?

 

Musiland is the kind of company that gives a bad name to chinese computer audio gear IMHO...everything's half--rsed about what they're selling:

-buggy firmwares

-BSOD feast drivers

-poor design(like the unshielded cheapo SMPS in the 02US, the horrid clock synthesis in all their USB "Monitor" serie that forces you to wait a few secs to get spot-on sample rates...otherwise your music won't play at the right pitch, duh)

-their bs firmware updates where you have to ask for a license and wait a few days to get a reply

-ugly sounding OP275 dual opamps

 

They have fixed some of those problems in their newer PCI board, but no USB version seems to be in the works?! That's the kind of company w/ Asus that simply fails at computer audio.

post #6 of 33
Thread Starter 
>their bs firmware updates where you have to ask for a license and wait a few days to get a reply

02 US only, not MD series afaik.


>-ugly sounding OP275 dual opamps

pretty sure MD30 will be using LME49710 or something...


>the horrid clock synthesis in all their USB "Monitor" serie that forces you to wait a few secs to get spot-on sample rates...otherwise your music won't play at the right pitch, duh

The MD series doesn't have precision mode and there is no noticeable locking delay switching sample rates at least via USB. Pretty sure it uses it by default since it has a better FPGA chip and clock. I'm not sure I understand about the 'right pitch'. Precision mode gives you closer sampling rates to the playback rate (i.e. the number of snapshots per second) the actual pitch is encoded within the samples. Seems more like you get extra or lost samples and jitter.



um wait, why am I defending them biggrin.gif ?. meh. US 02 really is a budget product.
Edited by svyr - 3/18/11 at 9:12pm
post #7 of 33
Thread Starter 
sort of specs
http://bbs.musiland.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10781&extra=page%3D1
Quote:
DAC chip: ADI (Analog Devices Inc.) AD1955 company

FPGA芯片:Xilinx XC3S250E

With AES / EBU professionalDigitalInput. With Canon (XLR) balanced analogOutput. There is no limit between the two does not mean that only AES / EBU signal to come through to the output XLR balanced. All digital inputs, including MULINK, coaxial RCA, coaxial BNC,Fiber, AES, or evenUSB, Can be balanced by Canon to output.

And MD11 asMD30The USB is not a traditional PCM2704 and the like, butMonitor 01 USD, as designed, and MD11 than the Monitor 01 USD and the USB to be good. It is done in the FPGA chip, it is necessary specialized equipmentDriver. Signal precision than a lot of PCISound CardDigital outputs are good. It is worthwhile to compare the PCI Love your sound card and MD30's USB, then you hearFeelingDecide which to use.

And a lot of different codecs, MD30 is independent of the clock decoder. Explain.
Let us talk about principles: sound card via coaxial, optical digital connections in both the signal sent over the data signal, another clock signal. Good understanding of the data signal isSoundTheir own content. What is the clock signal? Music is definitely with theTimeClosely related to it, what time is set out what sounds good. So just as we sing, beat time, like playing musical instruments, sound cards, play a sound decoder, the data also need to have "beat."PCRecord audio data is in one of a number of forms, the number of positive and negative, said vibration direction, the size of thatVolumeSize, according to the scheduled time shown these numbers to become a continuous heard music. For example, our most popular music files,SamplingFrequency is 44100Hz, the number is 44100 per second, number and interval between the number of 1 / 44100 sec.
So what, sound card, the decoder according to this beat a number one player, we can listen to music.
In fact, the "beat" is not absolutely accurate, the sound of the clock source will be errors, coaxial, fiber optic transmission will cause errors when there is always error, will be faster, slower, or rhythm instability , when the fast slowly. So in the sound distortion.
General decoder, which failed an independent clock, it's "beat" is the sound card provided to the clock signal and data signals together a good compilation code (easy transfer), in the coaxial, fiber optic lines in the pass over, the digital receiver translated back to the I2S format chip signal sent to DAC chip digital-analog conversion.
The MD30, what he himself has a clock, use the DDS generated (Direct digital frequency synthesizer, see Baidu Wikipedia, here:http://baike.baidu.com/view/38405.htm),High precision, up to the MD30 in 1ps. For received data, MD30 as long as the data signal part, for the clock signal is ignored, but with their own high-precision clock to play it. In this way, "beat" playing a more accurate, the soundSoundAlso been a considerable increase.

oh, I'm sorry, I was supposed to say mixed marketing interleaved with specs.

here are some tasty pics:

500
500
specs page has been updated:
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl==en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musiland.com.cn%2Findex.php%2FProduct%2Fshow%2Fid%2F189%23 (pics on it) / http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Product/show/id/189


judging from the specs the amp section is the same as MD11. Not a good thing at all. While it promises 260mW@300omh and delivers them, MD11 distortion and noise go up markedly and the sound sig changes for the worse (more mid centric)... So the main difference would be the DAC (better FPGA and clock?) and XLR out, AES in.

manual:
http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Download/show/id/54 <--- dl page or http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Download/get_file/id/54 <-- actual pdf (http://www.musiland.com.cn/downloads/manuals/MD30.pdf) and the translolled version http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.musiland.com.cn%2Fdownloads%2Fmanuals%2FMD30.pdf

although as suggests its already has typos (clock rating and something about the async buffer...) http://bbs.musiland.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10804&extra=page%3D1


Looks like maybe you can't adjust the volume separately on the two outputs or have both line out and HP playing at once like with MD11 (I take it, it also means no XLR + line out at once, or maybe they're listed as 'line'). Plus for some reason the display shows the async buffer state (empty to full indicator)


Seriously, you have to be insane to sink $600+ into an MD30... Especially if it still has a high noise floor on low impedance cans, outputs DC on line out or XLR or any of the problems above haven't been fixed biggrin.gif
Also, the navigation is still the clunky function-overloaded jog dial.
Edited by svyr - 3/26/11 at 1:52am
post #8 of 33
Thread Starter 
Pics of unboxing:

http://bbs.musiland.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10802&extra=page%3D1
500
500
That thing is huge. Also, not a fan of reusing the screen (limited viewing angle + size)

Looks like you can't adjust the volume of XLR and line separately (or the two HP outs separately) from the Musiland Control panel. (can adjust line and hp out lumped from the unit menu,but not much help?)

WRT the FIFO pointer, people seem to think it indicates think, not buffer level
Quote:
FIFO pointers, the start, the pointer will swing around the clock with the input signal, and finally stopped at a certain place, which indicates that, 1ps programmable clock and clock synchronization on the input.

Edited by svyr - 3/26/11 at 1:52am
post #9 of 33
Thread Starter 
http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100001951.htm or http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=auto&tl=en&u=http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100001951.htm

You can see the DAC(ad1955a),(2 clocks - 24mhz of their own looks to be near the coax and optical inputs and for those. and a http://www.silabs.com/pages/DownloadDoc.aspx?FILEURL=Support%20Documents/TechnicalDocs/si598-99.pdf&src=ProductMatrix configurable clock thingy fixed frequency internal ref crystal of crystal of 4850mhz and output 10-525mhz), FPGA chip, hp amp transistors, the opamp (buffer? for HP amp (OPA275)), cypress usb controller, the other opamp (line out section - L49722). Wonder what the black box digital transformer is for (I'm sure the actual soomal review will explain in time...maybe for coax in)

The usual musiland excitement from soomal (man it must be hard to get this sort of hi-res pics of the insides). Hi-res pics, etc. I'd expect they post a review soon. Unfortunately I bought the MD11 on their previous review which was along the lines of 'OMGBBQBESTTHINGEVUR'. Still, look forward reading to the next one saying that. Will probably discuss the 'ingenius' specs and implementation. Then you buy the unit and it's plaqued by the same problems as MD11 was...But yay. specs.(especially the overstated SNR ones and fuzzy ones about the HP amp being able to drive 300ohm headphones adequately.) Except this one will set you back $600 not 350

interesting topic to watch: http://bbs.musiland.com.cn/viewthread.php?tid=10841&extra=page%3D2
Edited by svyr - 4/1/11 at 5:08am
post #10 of 33

Musiland *must* be getting better at this - they have lagged behind virtually every other Chinese audio manufacturer I can think of. Maybe they will prove me wrong with the MD30, but I wont be hanging around their website looking for details - I'm with leeperry all the way.

 

To the other Chinese audio manufacturers - love your work, guys.

post #11 of 33
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by estreeter View Post

Musiland *must* be getting better at this - they have lagged behind virtually every other Chinese audio manufacturer I can think of. Maybe they will prove me wrong with the MD30, but I wont be hanging around their website looking for details - I'm with leeperry all the way.

 

To the other Chinese audio manufacturers - love your work, guys.


well, the moderators now release the change logs for drivers and firmware lol... A few days after the off release and on their BBS in member only threads. That's 'kind of' progress.

But yea, no amount of praise from Soomal will make me buy a Musiland again. Maybe if 4-5 positive head-fier reviews surface... but somehow I doubt that'll happen biggrin.gif
post #12 of 33
Quote:
Originally Posted by svyr View Post

But yea, no amount of praise from Soomal will make me buy a Musiland again. Maybe if 4-5 positive head-fier reviews surface... but somehow I doubt that'll happen biggrin.gif


It would need to be a joint review co-authored by Skylab, HeadphoneAddict, Asr, Uncle Erik and *God*. Even then, I would be nervous pressing 'Confirm' on any payment for a Musiland product. These guys really know how to make an amp that is LESS than the sum of its parts - way to go, space cadets.

 

post #13 of 33
Thread Starter 
as suspected, here's a short initial review from soomal http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100001985.htm
or http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl==en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soomal.com%2Fdoc%2F10100001985.htm

here's the org review for MD11 for cross-ref. http://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?hl=en&ie=UTF8&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&tl=en&twu=1&u=http://www.musiland.com.cn/index.php/Index/show/id/99&usg=ALkJrhgwSNCw3IQGi_PALaQ4QwPmPzjwiA or http://www.soomal.com/doc/10100001456.htm and http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=auto&tl==en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.soomal.com%2Fdoc%2F10100001456.htm

Interestingly, MD11 seems to measure better than MD30 (imd and thn+d) for the HP outs, and about the same for line out (pretty sure the line out section on both is nearly identical anyway). Soomal say the HP out measurements are likely to to firmware and wish to withhold a full review until a new release.
Guess, we'll see. I thought my MD11 problems were due to firmware too biggrin.gif .... Not really. they were hardware ones. Nothing seems to be mentioned about bal outs measurements or sound (should be pretty different to MD11, since it uses a different out section).

That said, even when THD+N and IMD are 2-3 better for MD11, soomal still rotate between claims of MD30 being more natural and detailed but being a different sound flavour. (presumably if they found vocals more pleasing = relative mids bump?). I suppose different DAC = different voicing for line out...

mmm.... yea... as they say where I live: 'cool story, bro' - 2-3x worse IMD and THN+D, but it sounds waaay more transparent. Umm, sure... also known as 'lol what man biggrin.gif ?'
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soomal 
The sound side and soft, with some increase resolving power relative MD11, the overall feeling of fullness a lot of sound, level better imaging and better vocal performance advantage is more apparent. Relatively high-frequency detail more MD11 stretch, the sound is more loose, but the transient performance and very good. Overall, MD30 MD11 relatively clear voice quality improvement, the sound has some different styles.

Edited by svyr - 4/16/11 at 6:39pm
post #14 of 33
Thread Starter 
What I really don't like about soomal and their measurements for HP out specs is that they don't quote the impedance of the HP used and the power out. (or provide a power out vs thn+d plot)
I think the quoted measurement results are effectively meaningless. (the same is true for the MD11 soomal measurements and review)

What they could do is provide those figures or even better results for different impedance loads and at different power output (a surrogate for different impedance hp and vol levels).
This would at least tell us how the gear performs with higher impedance HP and at higher volumes, since MD11 does a very poor job in that area.


As a side note, Musiland has a habit of quoting specs of the dac chip and not measured specs at the outputs.
Edited by svyr - 4/16/11 at 7:02pm
post #15 of 33

you know you want to buy it anyway [:ubik75]

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