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Schiit Lyr Shipping! Impressions? - Page 2

post #16 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by gordie View Post

It does seem like I'm getting more punch and satisfaction without needing to crank them up as much as I did with the other amps, a sign I'm getting more dynamics (expected with all that power), but I might just be imagining that.

 



Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.

 

post #17 of 2389
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post





Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.

 


It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort. 

 

post #18 of 2389
Thread Starter 

HK Sends, ChavaC and Gordie...thank you for the early impressions...keep'em coming!

 

post #19 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post



 

You're using a low-voltage source and you still have to attenuate the Lyr all the way down to 10 o'clock. Imagine what would happen if you were using a normal 2vrms source such as a DAC... The potentiometer wouldn't give you much fine control at that level of attenuation, and you would likely start suffering from channel imbalance.

 

Also, if you're at 10 o'clock on the Lyr with that source, then the Lyr is generating a small fraction of a volt as well as a small fraction of a watt for you. You're not really making use of the power of the amp.

 

Too much gain requires too much attenuation which bites you with analog non-IC attenuators. The amp may be great, but the high gain is problematic in most cases, and the power isn't really used in practice.

 

The only case where I can see it remotely making sense is if you have a low-power source coupled with very inefficient headphones (like the HE-6). In that case you may use the gain more, but even then you would be using only a small fraction of the power of this amp (but at least excess power doesn't hurt you unlike excess gain which needs to be attenuated).

 

 


Whoa! eek.gif You definitely lost me there for a moment. I understand that the source has a low voltage output, but if I try to turn the Lyr up past 11 (so to speak) o'clock, my ears are gonna implode. I don't have a different source or DAC to use right now. Should I lower the volume on the source, but crank the Lyr volume?

Inquiring n00b minds...
-HK sends
post #20 of 2389



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by leesure View Post




It's not about the continuous power.  It's about the power reserves to give you undistorted short term dynamics...a loud sharp snare drum, for example.  You may not need more than say 750mW in 90% of the passages, but then the amp may be called upon to deliver 3W for an instant.  The Lyr, theoretically, would handle that with aplomb, while a 1W RMS amp would clip and distort. 

 


I realize we're talking about peaks, but even peaks have a sensible volume limit. How loud do peaks need to be? on the HE-6 you would get extremely loud peaks of 117dB at 3W. That's at or beyond the loudness limit of many headphones, and I wouldn't want to listen to it even for short periods.

 

Even 1W will give you 113.5dB peaks which are too loud. Even at 0.25W you're at 107.5dB...
 

 

post #21 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by HK_sends View Post


Whoa! eek.gif You definitely lost me there for a moment. I understand that the source has a low voltage output, but if I try to turn the Lyr up past 11 (so to speak) o'clock, my ears are gonna implode. I don't have a different source or DAC to use right now. Should I lower the volume on the source, but crank the Lyr volume?

Inquiring n00b minds...
-HK sends



No, sorry to confuse you... I think you're ok the way you set it up. My point was just that this amp is overkill in terms of gain in most cases, and it's certainly overkill in terms of power. The excess gain problem will become particularly painful with a decent-voltage source (such as 2vrms) - basically, the attenuator will give you grief...

 

post #22 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post





No, sorry to confuse you... I think you're ok the way you set it up. My point was just that this amp is overkill in terms of gain in most cases, and it's certainly overkill in terms of power. The excess gain problem will become particularly painful with a decent-voltage source (such as 2vrms) - basically, the attenuator will give you grief...

 


Ah, ok...Thanks! I don't know if it will be an issue. I will be watching other peoples impressions with different equipment. I am curious at how it will work with higher end equipment than mine.

Cheers!beerchug.gif
-HK sends
post #23 of 2389



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

I realize we're talking about peaks, but even peaks have a sensible volume limit. How loud do peaks need to be? on the HE-6 you would get extremely loud peaks of 117dB at 3W. That's at or beyond the loudness limit of many headphones, and I wouldn't want to listen to it even for short periods.

 

Even 1W will give you 113.5dB peaks which are too loud. Even at 0.25W you're at 107.5dB...
 

 



So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?

 

This offers more on the subject

 

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html

 

 

 

post #24 of 2389

Received today in San Francisco. On my inaugural listen now. Immediate impressions vs my adored LD MKIII (with tube upgrades).

 

System:

MacPro playing thru Audirvana (Apple Lossless files for the most part).

Apogee Duet Firewire DAC

Denon H5000 with Jmoney V3 pads (cloth removed)

Grado PS 1000

 

This baby is smoooove. No purchase regret. Compared to the MKIII (which is a lovely listen):

- Bass way bigger but punchier, cleaner attacks, great, detailed transients

- L/R separation is absolute. Imaging is intense.

- Absolutely no discernable self-noise (but with these 2 phones you don't really need to get past 9 o'clock)

- Hard to describe, increased feeling of warmth & low end, but improved accuracy & detail at the same time. Having had a few SS amps as well, this seems like a perfect blend of the two.

- Built like a TANK. Heavy. Compact.

- Doesn't seem to put out that much heat. But then again, this is S.F. where it's usually in the 50's & 60's, that could be viewed as a negative. I sometimes warm my hands in front of my Samsung plasma TV. 

 

Also on the wait list for LCD2, but happy to find this is an improvement for my other cans as well. I don't think there's a downside to having all that power in reserve. It makes the transients pop cleanly and without distortion. This was always the rule with speaker amps, I think it must hold true for headphone amps as well.

 

 

 

post #25 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtain View Post

So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?

 

This offers more on the subject

 

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html

 


It mostly is a gimmick since pretty much only the K1000s need that kind of power.  It does give you peace of mind though.  It should be able to handle pretty much any "conventional" headphone ever made and probably anything that will be made.  Its not like there are any drawbacks to it either assuming they QC the pots properly.  If it tracks properly it doesn't matter if you won't usually need to go very high.  You aren't paying through the nose for that extra power either.  Anything I know of with similar amounts of power costs around twice as much.

 

I'm considering one for myself.  Based on the specs this may pretty close to "the one amp to rule them all."  I'd love to see some detailed measurements of it.

post #26 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by sferic View Post

- Absolutely no discernable self-noise (but with these 2 phones you don't really need to get past 9 o'clock)

 



9 o'clock on the Alps RK27 pots used in this amp is quite likely to give you some left/right imbalance, not to mention that you don't have much scope for fine volume adjustment at the bottom of the pots travel.

 

You typically don't want to have to go below 10-11 o'clock on these Alps pots based on what I read in the DYI sites, and based on my experience with Alps pots (although I don't have this particular model).

 

 

post #27 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by maverickronin View Post


It mostly is a gimmick since pretty much only the K1000s need that kind of power.  It does give you peace of mind though.  It should be able to handle pretty much any "conventional" headphone ever made and probably anything that will be made.  Its not like there are any drawbacks to it either assuming they QC the pots properly.  If it tracks properly it doesn't matter if you won't usually need to go very high.  You aren't paying through the nose for that extra power either.  Anything I know of with similar amounts of power costs around twice as much.

 

I'm considering one for myself.  Based on the specs this may pretty close to "the one amp to rule them all."  I'd love to see some detailed measurements of it.



There are certainly drawbacks to the high gain that goes with this high power. See note above regarding the lack of fine volume control and the channel volume mismatch.

 

I think this amp may be ok for the HE-6, but far from ideal for more efficient headphones because of the volume control issues that you would be facing.

 

 

post #28 of 2389

MOAR POWAR. YES!!!popcorn.gif

post #29 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by curtain View Post



 



So are you suggesting 6W is a marketing gimmick to differentiate the product?

 

This offers more on the subject

 

http://6moons.com/audioreviews/schiit/11.html

 

 

 


Hmmm... Interesting table in this link. I'm surprised by the results for the 2V source considering that this is an amp with a high gain of 10X... I would have expected lower positions on the pots. It would be illuminating to see the attenuation graph of the Alps RK27.

 

post #30 of 2389
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post





Thanks - good to hear - I may try this amp with my HE-6 as well. However, I'm skeptical that its power would make a difference because even at just 1W the HE-6 would exceed 110dB in volume which is deafening. So far I haven't seen a good explanation of why you would need an amp capable of more than 1W for the HE-6.

 

IMO, it's not just about loudness.  Take for example my Grado SR225.  They are easily driven to loud volumes, with or without an amp (they only need a few mw to get very loud).  When I first added a CKKIII to my PC, of course the SR225 was able to reach higher volumes, but was endangering my hearing the only benefit?--No.  When I compared the listening experience with and without the amp at similar volumes, the amped Grados sounded richer, fuller, etc.  In other words, the Grado is able to achieve 95db with or without the amp, but they don't sound the same despite playing at the same volume.  Similarly, it's probable that the HE-6 will sound different at 95db depending on how many watts is feeding that volume.  The amp isn't there just to make sure your amp can hit 110db... it's there to make sure it sounds great at 110db.

 

At the same time, I'm not trying to say that everyone should be going out to buy amps with the highest output possible, because it's not all about the watts either (e.g.  The CKKIII outputs a lot more into the Grado than the famed Mapletree amp, but I'm not going to contend on that point alone that the CKKIII will sound better than Dr Pepper's offering.).  I think you're right about the overkill thing, ... 6w at 32ohm is overkill for most headphones, but at that point it's really more about the flavor of the amp than it is about how loud it can get your headphone (in fact, is how loud an amp can drive your headphone important to anybody?  since clipping is uncommon for most headphones, probably not.). 

 

The 6w seems to be a design trait specifically for orthos, which should produce 110db better with 6w than they could with 0.75w.  Schiit has already said that if you want to be using one of their amps for something like a grado, the Asgard might be the better match (for readers who want proof, please refer to the sponsorship thread where Jason explicitly states this).  Schiit's not trying to lure customers in with the 6w spec alone.  They're hoping that the Lyr will sound beautiful to us because its synergies will be great with headphones abcd...xyz.  As we all know here at headfi, word of mouth is king.

 

And lastly, about the lyr's watts potentially making the volume pot too sensitive, 6moons' estimates seem to put this to rest.  Once I get mine, I'll try to post some impressions.


Edited by foaming at the ears - 3/2/11 at 9:14pm
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