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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 49

post #721 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

 

Thanks I appreciate all the help. If it wasn't for you and your reviews, I would of bought the Miracles and probably wouldn't like the sound signature. 

 

Another thing I would like to point out. I honestly could barely tell the difference from Klipsch S4 and Monster Turbine Pro Copper. I think the Coppers have tighter bass and the instruments are more detailed by a tiny margin. If thats the difference between $300 IEM and $100 IEM... then I don't even know if buying a custom IEM is worth it.

 

Are they durable? Im probably going to use it everyday. Will the colour fade?

and if one ear is not working after a few years, will Rooth fix it for me at a cost? how much


     Quote:

Originally Posted by Kanashimu View Post

The fact is, thats what high end audio is - extreme increases of cost for tiny returns. A $100 or so Radius DDM is only slightly inferior to my $400 ATH ES10 (though the ES10 you obviously pay for looks - the HD 25s and DT1350, T50P are better price/performers).


Speaking about the law of diminishing returns, while I agree in general, my opinion is different with some gear.  How do you quantify the added emotional ability of power and dynamics to go along with a 3D recreation of an event that puts you in front of the performers and allows you to make out instruments and things in the recording you didn't know were there, or more likely just weren't recreated properly therefore you couldn't comprehend them.  Sure, both a custom IEM and the S4 or Copper reproduce music, but to me the difference is well worth the price.

 

There are two different things going on in the quoted posts.  First, the Copper vs. the S4...the Copper is more difficult to drive, so the source will play a large role with that IEM in performance.  Sure, the Copper is better, but a source an minimize those differences while the Copper can perform a good deal better with another source.

 

The difference between the DDM and the ES10 IMO can be largely due to IEM vs. headphone as both have different presentations and, especially if one uses one of the two more than the other, that will sound more normal.  And the IEM will be easier to drive.  I used the AMP3 Pro2 with the ES10 and thought that was a great pairing, but with an iPhone didn't care for the ES10 nearly as much for example.

 

Also, it depends on the listener, music, and environment.  If you are listening to music while concentrating on other things from your environment to a book or work higher technical performance will be wasted, and loud background noise will reduce the ability to perceive the superior technical performance, however high levels of isolation do help with this.  Also, I have heard music that has had no depth of soundstage and/or is just poorly mastered so the benefits of higher technical performance is lost, not to mention lossy files losing some of the emotion that can be recreated with high end custom IEMs.

 

The money for the LS8 (or whatever high end custom) is over 10 fold the S4 and if that is worth it is different for each and every person.  If you don't have it, don't spend it.  And expectations can be dangerous; if you are looking for the holy grail you may find it or you may not, and you can't return custom IEMs and will have to take a large loss in resale.  Personally, I think custom IEMs are worth every penny, but then I have lossless (and 24 bit) music, a great source, and spend quiet time listening.

 

post #722 of 4815

I think that's a misnomer about Hi-End Audio. It's not about price but performance. Yes, cost/performance ratio isn't linear but hi end can come from a giant killer as easily as from a hi cost item. If you say expensive audio involves diminishing returns, it's true but relative to an individual's needs. I've always looked at Hi-End as performance and not price oriented.


Edited by goodvibes - 11/27/11 at 11:01pm
post #723 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 


     Quote:


Speaking about the law of diminishing returns, while I agree in general, my opinion is different with some gear.  How do you quantify the added emotional ability of power and dynamics to go along with a 3D recreation of an event that puts you in front of the performers and allows you to make out instruments and things in the recording you didn't know were there, or more likely just weren't recreated properly therefore you couldn't comprehend them.  Sure, both a custom IEM and the S4 or Copper reproduce music, but to me the difference is well worth the price.

 

There are two different things going on in the quoted posts.  First, the Copper vs. the S4...the Copper is more difficult to drive, so the source will play a large role with that IEM in performance.  Sure, the Copper is better, but a source an minimize those differences while the Copper can perform a good deal better with another source.

 

The difference between the DDM and the ES10 IMO can be largely due to IEM vs. headphone as both have different presentations and, especially if one uses one of the two more than the other, that will sound more normal.  And the IEM will be easier to drive.  I used the AMP3 Pro2 with the ES10 and thought that was a great pairing, but with an iPhone didn't care for the ES10 nearly as much for example.

 

Also, it depends on the listener, music, and environment.  If you are listening to music while concentrating on other things from your environment to a book or work higher technical performance will be wasted, and loud background noise will reduce the ability to perceive the superior technical performance, however high levels of isolation do help with this.  Also, I have heard music that has had no depth of soundstage and/or is just poorly mastered so the benefits of higher technical performance is lost, not to mention lossy files losing some of the emotion that can be recreated with high end custom IEMs.

 

The money for the LS8 (or whatever high end custom) is over 10 fold the S4 and if that is worth it is different for each and every person.  If you don't have it, don't spend it.  And expectations can be dangerous; if you are looking for the holy grail you may find it or you may not, and you can't return custom IEMs and will have to take a large loss in resale.  Personally, I think custom IEMs are worth every penny, but then I have lossless (and 24 bit) music, a great source, and spend quiet time listening.

 


Im only going to use an ipod touch or iphone for my IEMs, is that going to have a dramatic effect on the performance of LS8?

 

post #724 of 4815

Totally agreed. After I got my SA43s, I never wanted to listen to another pair of universals again. They are superior in every imaginable aspect to universals that makes listening to even the most high end IEMs seem unnatural and weak.  

post #725 of 4815

Received my Livewire Dual Driver Customs today.  They are lovely.  Sound quality is just "good" and reflective of their price.  Soundstage is not wide, deep or at all dynamic out of just my J3. Quite an average stage with a semi forward presentation.  Not the set I was hoping for, but then again I need HE500/LCD2  staging to keep me happy.   These are the most needy iems I've ever had, they require good source to sound dynamic.  My J3 does not sound so good with them , but my home computer does.  I don't think they need amping per say, just a large spacious source.  Sounds very nice with foobar2k and wasapi

 

 

-Balanced sound, equal quantity of bass, mids and highs.

 ( leaves me just wanting more, not enough of anything to keep my happy ) 

-Exceptional Service, replies within 24 hours, very informative and caring

- 2 week turnaround from shipping my molds to receiving the final product

 

PB280117.JPG

 


Edited by swbf2cheater - 11/28/11 at 1:02pm
post #726 of 4815

Nice, how do they compare to similarly priced universals you have tried?

post #727 of 4815

Out of the J3, these Livewires are on par with some of them in the $200-300 range that I've had.  Some sets like the IE8 had a noticeably better stage, more width and depth, more airiness.  The pro monster lineups ( pro gold and copper ) had nicer bass in terms of quantity, similar quality though.  I think the Livewires have very nice quality, but its just not enough.  Overall they are just "Good".  I am not at all excited to use them, its still early and my ears have not adjusted to it, maybe it will get better in time but right now they are just passable as something I would actually use.  They sound fairly congested as the stage is not at all airy or spacious, separation is average...every aspect of the stage and presentation qualities are average to my ears out of the J3.  

 

However, once I plugged into the pc the dynamics audibly changed, not that much but enough to hear and notice.  Stage depth changed most, sounds more layered out in front, more going in there.  It is a good choice for portable needs, this is not a set I would use all day at home as my main.  These are  just no where near good enough for that, especially for me coming from the Orthos like the LCD2 and He500.  They leave me sad and unhappy but as for a good portable solution?  Definitely! It is entirely in the realm of a very good portable set despite not sounding great unamped out of the J3.  

 

The fit and finish is great, they are sexy as hell and the cable length for me is perfect ( again I asked for them to trim it to 40 inches for me, they did so for free ).  

post #728 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

Im only going to use an ipod touch or iphone for my IEMs, is that going to have a dramatic effect on the performance of LS8?

 

The Clip+ does a better job with the LS8 than my iPhone/iPod, although dramatic, no. It can just sound so much better ;)
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by rangerid View Post

Totally agreed. After I got my SA43s, I never wanted to listen to another pair of universals again. They are superior in every imaginable aspect to universals that makes listening to even the most high end IEMs seem unnatural and weak.  


Ha, yep, the whole of the presentation is greater than the sum of the parts!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swbf2cheater View Post

Received my Livewire Dual Driver Customs today.  They are lovely.  Sound quality is just "good" and reflective of their price.  Soundstage is not wide, deep or at all dynamic out of just my J3. Quite an average stage with a semi forward presentation.  Not the set I was hoping for, but then again I need HE500/LCD2  staging to keep me happy.   These are the most needy iems I've ever had, they require good source to sound dynamic.  My J3 does not sound so good with them , but my home computer does.  I don't think they need amping per say, just a large spacious source.  Sounds very nice with foobar2k and wasapi

 

 

-Balanced sound, equal quantity of bass, mids and highs.

 ( leaves me just wanting more, not enough of anything to keep my happy ) 

-Exceptional Service, replies within 24 hours, very informative and caring

- 2 week turnaround from shipping my molds to receiving the final product

 

PB280117.JPG

 


Thanks for sharing...I wonder how they compare with the CK10 or DBA-02?  And of course the LCD-2 and He500 are in different price ranges, so they should sound much better.  

 

post #729 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

 

The Clip+ does a better job with the LS8 than my iPhone/iPod, although dramatic, no. It can just sound so much better ;)

 


I still can't imagine Clip+ sound better. Are you referring to the SanDisk Sansa Clip+??

I had a Sansa View and I thought the sound quality was the same as ipod.

 

post #730 of 4815
Thread Starter 

I am saying I found the Clip+ to sound better than my iPhone with the LS8, not that one player is better than the other; they have different strengths.  And read this about the Clip vs. the View (and the Clip+ uses the same chip).  Not to mention the two Touches I have heard don't sound as good as the iPhone.  Sources can make a significant difference to my enjoyment depending on synergy based on dynamics, resolution, space, and the matching of the frequency response among other things.

post #731 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I am saying I found the Clip+ to sound better than my iPhone with the LS8, not that one player is better than the other; they have different strengths.  And read this about the Clip vs. the View (and the Clip+ uses the same chip).  Not to mention the two Touches I have heard don't sound as good as the iPhone.  Sources can make a significant difference to my enjoyment depending on synergy based on dynamics, resolution, space, and the matching of the frequency response among other things.



 

and as I'm finding, and it seems many others have, there's nothing like customs to bring out the differences

post #732 of 4815

there is a really good thread on here where someone did extensive testing (hardware and software tests) on both the ipod and clip+ to compare them.  I saw it a long time ago and cant remember what its called, but it's a great read if you can find it.

post #733 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br777 View Post

and as I'm finding, and it seems many others have, there's nothing like customs to bring out the differences


Yes, great point.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br777 View Post

there is a really good thread on here where someone did extensive testing (hardware and software tests) on both the ipod and clip+ to compare them.  I saw it a long time ago and cant remember what its called, but it's a great read if you can find it.


IMO the older iPods aren't all that great from the HPO, but the newer iPhones seem to be better.  Well, the 4 is better than the 4S supposedly, and the 4 is better than the 3G & 3GS, but it comes down to synergy.  Although I am interested to read it if you can find a link.

post #734 of 4815

well, I had the Sansa View and iPod Touch 3G. Now I have iPod Touch 4G.

I honestly could not tell the difference. I have used Monster Turbines on them.

Maybe my hearing is not that good. Or the difference is too insignificant for me to hear.

I guess Im not a true audiophile. :(

post #735 of 4815
Thread Starter 

While I have heard both the Touch 3G and the 4G, I haven't compared them, nor have I heard the View, so I have no idea how they compare.  And, Monster Turbines aren't the most resolving or controlled IEM out there so I could imagine the differences are minimal.  The differences between the LS8 and Turbines should be very significant regardless of the source as the LS8 has a much different sound signature.  I can't really recommend a universal that really does all the LS8 does, maybe a CK10 from the mids on up or the SM3 or TF10 in the bass region, but that still really doesn't do the LS8 justice because it is better than any part of any of those IEMs.

 

I see this going one of two ways at this point

1) You get the LS8 and love it and are done

2) You get the LS8 and don't care for the sound signature and are dissatisfied

 

I can't see you not hearing the difference from the Turbine and thinking it is large, although I guess it is possible.  I actually think it may be best to just get some universal BA IEMs and see what you think because even though the LS8 is better than any universal IEM I have heard, there are some similar characteristics in the presentation to the CK10 (imaging and note thickness in the mids/treble) and the SM3 (liquid presentation that doesn't lack bass and bass reverb).  Then, if you know you will like the sound signature it would make more sense to go for it and 1) above will be more probable.  

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)