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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 45

post #661 of 4815
Thread Starter 

A note on the Altec Lansing custom IEMs...received an email from the media contact stating that they are tuned differently than the ACS products.  That is all the detail I received and I replied again with more questions and I will update here as I find out more.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kckc View Post

Joe, can you give your thoughts on silicone vs acrylic shells based on your personal experience? Most companies use acrylic shells but doesn't silicone shells offer better comfort? Why is that there aren't a lot of companies with the silicone option?


Let me start by saying that with a proper fit, acrylic shells are very comfortable.  The advantages of acrylic shells is: they are sturdier/don't flex, have detachable cables (although I think many of the silicone manufacturers are working on that and Sensaphonics already has been successful).  Silicone is note necessarily more comfortable in my ears as I can wear most of my monitors for extended periods of time with no issues. Isolation in the upper frequency range is better with silicone, but the Starkey SA-43, which uses an acrylic shell filled with silicone gives about the same isolation if not a bit better than the two silicone shelled custom IEMs I have.

 

Why don't a lot of companies use silicone?  From what I know it is much more difficult to work with than acrylic.  Silicone used to have yellowing issues, and may still, plus the cable is usually the first thing to go on an IEM, so detachable cables can save a lot of hassle.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metalboy View Post

I used my Westone ES5 before. One of the bassdrivers are broken. Currently I use the Sennheiser IE8 and I find it to be a little bit faster in the bass compared to the ES5. But The ES5 have a lot more detail in everything. The ES5 was to slow to me with fast double bass drumming and I think it has a too narrow soundstage. Iam looking for I iem with a lot of detail with a big soundstage and/or a more fun iem like the i9pro and I listen to 99% Metal. Sorry if I ask to many questions.


Wow, that is the first time I have heard someone call the ES5 slow (I haven't read all the thread posts, so I may have missed it).  I wonder if there was always something wrong with your ES5, especially since the IE8 is faster in the bass region and you had a driver fail.  Usually BA drivers are faster than dynamic drivers, but I know there could be exceptions.  If speed is your concern, custom IEMs like the JH16, LS8, TS842, and Infinity X3 are the fastest.  I compared the i9pro with the aud-5X with my various speed metal and the 5X does sound faster than the i9pro, although once I wasn't A/Bing them the i9pro sounded fine, however I prefer the 5X sound signature for metal since the mids are more forward and for me the presentation fits quite well, but if you want a more laid back presentation the i9pro will give that to you.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by i_djoel2000 View Post

it's a relatively cheap IEM, i know .. but im716 is in the same level as my phonak audeo smily_headphones1.gif


I don't have experience with the im716 but remember reading all about it and if you are satisfied with that, that is awesome!  For me, custom IEMs are so much more comfortable than most universals I can hardly stand to keep universals in my ears for extended periods of time!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post

what is your name?

what is your quest?

what is your favorite color?

poor joe is drowning under questions (and it must be an everyday pm's avalanche)

 

thanks a lot for this huge work. as a 35 year old newborn in matters of properly feeding my ears, i m really grateful and appreciative of all the tips and of how you went over the usual pride trap "now that i ve spent 1000+$ on this i have to say it is the very best" .

 

ok i ve got my question cause i m not better than anyone else. when reviewing headphones vs customs you talk about the sound stage space and don't seem one bit bothered by the fact that customs are restricted to the head. but when reviewing the audio players you clearly note smaller sound stage as a weakness. was it just a matter of speak or is there something deeper that i don't get? i m not picky for the fun of it, in fact you might be the first person i read who doesn't blatantly say that huge sound stage = quality sound. i am having some kind of inside revolution about that atm . which leads me to believe that i need several earphone/headphones depending on what i m listening to (+ mood) . that + the unending list of products you guys are reviewing make it really hard to handle.  my banker is concerned and hates u all btw.


Uh, blue.  No, yel....aggg

 

Thank you for sharing your perspective and your questions!

 

IMO there is a give and take between headphones and IEMs.  Both are so very different with headphones of course using the outer ear while IEMs don't.  I find that headphones can sound larger overall, but then they give up the image created across your head.  For me, both take some adjustment to get used to when I have only been listening to one for any extended period of time, but it is easier for me to adjust to IEMs for whatever reason.  When I rate sound, I take things into account such as detail, naturalness, cohesion of the presentation, clarity, transparency, etc. and soundstage size is only part of the equation.  Also, just because something has a wide soundstage doesn't mean the soundstage has the proper depth and height as a headphone with a smaller stage can sound more realistic and natural to my ears.  One of the issues I have with headphones I have heard that cost below the LCD-2 price point (and I haven't heard them all) is that they sound more like a point source outside my ears vs. giving that coherent imaging across my head.  I have to stop myself from focusing on hearing the speaker outside of each ear while with lower end IEMs the opposite is the issue with many, and that is the sound is too in my head and not expansive enough.

 

Part of the equation to me is how defined everything is within the soundstage, not just the size a headphone recreates.  If something is big, but puts things in the wrong place, has poor definition, or lacks definition in all the way across my head I am not as immersed in the presentation as something that is smaller that does all those things well.  Sorry about your wallet, and better your banker is upset than your credit card holder is smiling!


Edited by average_joe - 11/16/11 at 10:06pm
post #662 of 4815

AL's A1 looks very interesting:

A1.png
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

A note on the Altec Lansing custom IEMs...received an email from the media contact stating that they are tuned differently than the ACS products.  That is all the detail I received and I replied again with more questions and I will update here as I find out more.



 

post #663 of 4815
Thread Starter 

Yes, it looks like the SA-12.

 

P1000443.JPG IMG_2928.JPG

 

And on a side note, I updated my cable review thread with the DHC Symbiote and Null Audio Crystalino cables.

post #664 of 4815

Well Starkey just shipped my SA43s out and they should be here on the 21st ;)

 

Turnaround time is unbelievably fast


Edited by rangerid - 11/17/11 at 6:53am
post #665 of 4815
Thread Starter 

Awesome, I am looking forward to your thoughts.

post #666 of 4815

Hey Joe, 

 

My team currently needed neutral custom in ears. It's going to be purely for live mixing and not for personal listening. What do you think of 1964ears?

 

Cheers!

post #667 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post

what is your name?

what is your quest?

what is your favorite color?

poor joe is drowning under questions (and it must be an everyday pm's avalanche)

 

thanks a lot for this huge work. as a 35 year old newborn in matters of properly feeding my ears, i m really grateful and appreciative of all the tips and of how you went over the usual pride trap "now that i ve spent 1000+$ on this i have to say it is the very best" .

 

ok i ve got my question cause i m not better than anyone else. when reviewing headphones vs customs you talk about the sound stage space and don't seem one bit bothered by the fact that customs are restricted to the head. but when reviewing the audio players you clearly note smaller sound stage as a weakness. was it just a matter of speak or is there something deeper that i don't get? i m not picky for the fun of it, in fact you might be the first person i read who doesn't blatantly say that huge sound stage = quality sound. i am having some kind of inside revolution about that atm . which leads me to believe that i need several earphone/headphones depending on what i m listening to (+ mood) . that + the unending list of products you guys are reviewing make it really hard to handle.  my banker is concerned and hates u all btw.


I forgot to mention the source part.  I do think the soundstage size of headphones/custom IEMs to be a strength or weakness, and the performance of sources is the same, but different.  If a source is smaller than average, it can constrict the sound and change the characteristics of a headphone/IEM.  When people listen to high end headphones with entry level equipment that compresses the soundstage, the headphone is performing below even average capability and the advantage will be minimized vs. something that is technically inferior.

 

Please let me know if what I have posted here and in the other thread makes sense.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post

Hey Joe, 

 

My team currently needed neutral custom in ears. It's going to be purely for live mixing and not for personal listening. What do you think of 1964ears?

 

Cheers!



Thanks for the question.  I have only heard a T made for jokers ears, so the extent of my knowledge is based primarily off what I have read and what joker has to say about the T.  But, I wanted to start with some questions:

- What qualities are important, such as detail, soundstage space, neutral frequency response, analytical presentation, etc.

- What is the price point?

- Would you buy international, or just from a US company?

 

While I haven't officially heard anything 1964, I can hopefully help steer you in the right direction at least!

post #668 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

Thanks for the question.  I have only heard a T made for jokers ears, so the extent of my knowledge is based primarily off what I have read and what joker has to say about the T.  But, I wanted to start with some questions:

- What qualities are important, such as detail, soundstage space, neutral frequency response, analytical presentation, etc.

- What is the price point?

- Would you buy international, or just from a US company?

 

While I haven't officially heard anything 1964, I can hopefully help steer you in the right direction at least!


Just a neutral frequency response and analytical presentation. Neutrality is the main priority. Price point is preferably under 600. We don't mind international companies.

 

Cheers Joe!

 

post #669 of 4815

my miracles should be shipping any time now.  have a purple pico slim coming soon too!  fun times ahead!!! will definitely report back.

 

 

post #670 of 4815

thx for wasting your time on me. I ve been reading you and almost anything that I can grasp until real life pushes me away from my laptop, but not answering. Mainly cause each time I tend to experiment with what I ve got around and end up brain dead with the jh13 on. ( "easy listening" doesn't seem to be something I can do, the jh13 just monopolize my attention too much even at low volume.) right now I ve been reading like 25 pages and listened to around 15 songs intensively so I just read myself and you for the 40th times just to finish this post ^_^

 

about the sound stage being a good or bad thing, I got what you meant now. that's something so obvious to me in the photography process yet i didn't think about it for sound. from the band playing to us listening, each part of the work chain needs to keep as much as it can of the original. thinking that way makes it obvious why a restricted sound stage from a source may lead to something bad. and the same way makes it obvious why iems and headphones must be picked to fine tune the song to our personal tastes. as it is the end of the chain and so the less destructive way to alter the song to our convenience.

 

I mostly use a samsung p3 as source cause it is the only one I got that makes no audible "noise" with iem (don't even know how to call that in english, the hissing like, white noise you can get even with no music playing )  It has been for many years now my one and only concern at the cost of many other sound qualities and features. and that's why I usually can't stand using a computer as source.  and one more time for amps, I ve never even looked at them because I ve always supposed that with amplification would come some "parasitic noise"  ( please tell me how that is called so i can stop the bad metaphors) . but now i m actually wondering about that too, as all my certitudes about portable hifi crumbled the day i stepped foot on this horrible website so full of dependable people. tongue_smile.gif

post #671 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikp View Post

Just a neutral frequency response and analytical presentation. Neutrality is the main priority. Price point is preferably under 600. We don't mind international companies.

 

Cheers Joe!


There are a few I have heard that are neutral and on the analytical side.  The Fabs are fairly neutral, but they are a half shell and probably not exactly what you are looking for.  I have the given a short listen to the Alclair Reference Master 3000 and that sounds fairly neutral, but due to fit issues I have sent them back.  I also recently had a discussion with joker about the 1964-T and the Clear Tunes CT-200 he is reviewing and I got the impression the CT-200 is a more neutral monitor.  For neutral in that price range, duals may be a good bet from the many manufacturers, unless something is specifically tuned for reference such as the Alclair.  In your price range, I am not sure what international companies make good neutral monitors, but at higher prices the NT6 is extremely good.  Please let us know if you have any more questions.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Br777 View Post

my miracles should be shipping any time now.  have a purple pico slim coming soon too!  fun times ahead!!! will definitely report back.


Very cool!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by castleofargh View Post

thx for wasting your time on me. I ve been reading you and almost anything that I can grasp until real life pushes me away from my laptop, but not answering. Mainly cause each time I tend to experiment with what I ve got around and end up brain dead with the jh13 on. ( "easy listening" doesn't seem to be something I can do, the jh13 just monopolize my attention too much even at low volume.) right now I ve been reading like 25 pages and listened to around 15 songs intensively so I just read myself and you for the 40th times just to finish this post ^_^

 

about the sound stage being a good or bad thing, I got what you meant now. that's something so obvious to me in the photography process yet i didn't think about it for sound. from the band playing to us listening, each part of the work chain needs to keep as much as it can of the original. thinking that way makes it obvious why a restricted sound stage from a source may lead to something bad. and the same way makes it obvious why iems and headphones must be picked to fine tune the song to our personal tastes. as it is the end of the chain and so the less destructive way to alter the song to our convenience.

 

I mostly use a samsung p3 as source cause it is the only one I got that makes no audible "noise" with iem (don't even know how to call that in english, the hissing like, white noise you can get even with no music playing )  It has been for many years now my one and only concern at the cost of many other sound qualities and features. and that's why I usually can't stand using a computer as source.  and one more time for amps, I ve never even looked at them because I ve always supposed that with amplification would come some "parasitic noise"  ( please tell me how that is called so i can stop the bad metaphors) . but now i m actually wondering about that too, as all my certitudes about portable hifi crumbled the day i stepped foot on this horrible website so full of dependable people. tongue_smile.gif

 

Sounds like you got what I was trying to say!

 

As far as the P3, it depends on how good the DAC section is for the detail levels, and then does the amp section allow the full resolution and space to come through or not.  If the amp in the P3 is limiting in any way, adding an amp won't really help much.  As far as noise, amps generally don't add their own noise and have been pretty silent in my experience.  And yes, we are audioholics, but dependable ones ;)


Edited by average_joe - 11/19/11 at 7:40am
post #672 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 


There are a few I have heard that are neutral and on the analytical side.  The Fabs are fairly neutral, but they are a half shell and probably not exactly what you are looking for.  I have the given a short listen to the Alclair Reference Master 3000 and that sounds fairly neutral, but due to fit issues I have sent them back.  I also recently had a discussion with joker about the 1964-T and the Clear Tunes CT-200 he is reviewing and I got the impression the CT-200 is a more neutral monitor.  For neutral in that price range, duals may be a good bet from the many manufacturers, unless something is specifically tuned for reference such as the Alclair.  In your price range, I am not sure what international companies make good neutral monitors, but at higher prices the NT6 is extremely good.  Please let us know if you have any more questions.

 


Thanks Joe! The Alclair seems interesting but I'm worrying about those fit issues you have. 

post #673 of 4815
Thread Starter 

If you read enough about custom IEMs, fit issues will happen to a certain %.  The material I used for those impressions was what turned out to be a less than stellar batch of material, so I am not sure if that was partly to blame, or what.  I will see how they fit when I get them back.

post #674 of 4815

SA43 Received!

Fit is perfect ;D and that was my biggest concern. 

 

 

post #675 of 4815

Impressive work, thanks a lot average_joe

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