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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 5

post #61 of 4078
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackKontney View Post

Is that the deal on head-fi - expecting users to subscribe rather than just topping/sticky threads?

I've been curious about that.


 

It appears that no posts get stickied, but some do make the first page.  Maybe some day...


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

 

 

That should be interesting. Doesn't the TS842 use a 6mm micro-driver for the dynamic?

 

Looks like it

 

The vent is interesting, too. I wonder how the bass will be on a 6mm driver.

 

The only higher-end dynamic that small will be the MD Trumpet, when it comes out.


 


 

It looks more like a 10mm driver to me!  Did you find a review or other source that discusses the driver size, because, except for TS saying the driver size, there is, IMO, no way to tell the size by just looking at a driver in a shell.  

 

And yes, the port does look interesting, thanks for noticing ;)  I hope to find out soon, but my impressions are still have not arrived.

 

Edit: I have sent them TS an email asking for more information...I usually save my questions for after I get a product and have used it so I can ask them all at once, but I sent them one.

 

And, IMO, the size of the driver doesn't really mean all that much.  I could be wrong, but are the punch plugs any better in the bass department than some of the IEMs with smaller bass drivers for example?  I hope to find out some day!  On that note, I did add some thoughts of mine about drivers and such to the 5th post in this thread.

 


Edited by average_joe - 3/24/11 at 8:21pm
post #62 of 4078



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

It looks more like a 10mm driver to me!  Did you find a review or other source that discusses the driver size, because, except for TS saying the driver size, there is, IMO, no way to tell the size by just looking at a driver in a shell.  

 

And yes, the port does look interesting, thanks for noticing ;)  I hope to find out soon, but my impressions are still have not arrived.

 

Edit: I have sent them TS an email asking for more information...I usually save my questions for after I get a product and have used it so I can ask them all at once, but I sent them one.

 

And, IMO, the size of the driver doesn't really mean all that much.  I could be wrong, but are the punch plugs any better in the bass department than some of the IEMs with smaller bass drivers for example?  I hope to find out some day!  On that note, I did add some thoughts of mine about drivers and such to the 5th post in this thread.

 

Hi, I think I read that somewhere, I could very well be mistaken, or the information may be old. Let me know what TS says!

 

The size of the driver does make a difference, but it's one of several factors. There are trade offs with any change along any dimension for any transducer type. It'll be fun to see what exactly TS is using for their dynamic and for their ba armatures. At least it won't be from a cheapish earbud this time around, hopefully. Did that Italian fellow re-tune those hybrid customs for you?

 

 

post #63 of 4078

moving coil drivers.jpg

Here is a picture of the ts842 moving-coil (dynamic) drivers.

 

Hmm, I think the clue is the packing material texture, we've all seen that and have a sense of the size of the pattern of the texture--it's not as good as a graduated measure, but these drivers look like they are less than 1 cm. I'll stick with my figure of 6mm (however I got it in my head) and we'll see if that's accurate.

post #64 of 4078

I've always been curious - How do the BA drivers stay in place inside the custom shell? Is it stuck on to the shell by glue or something? I can't seem to see anything resembling glue. What is preventing them from moving and rattling when you shake them?

post #65 of 4078

Great question. Sensaphonics encases the driver(s) in solid silicone, ensuring the drivers stay in position with no unwanted rattling or vibration.

post #66 of 4078
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Hmm, I think the clue is the packing material texture, we've all seen that and have a sense of the size of the pattern of the texture--it's not as good as a graduated measure, but these drivers look like they are less than 1 cm. I'll stick with my figure of 6mm (however I got it in my head) and we'll see if that's accurate.


Wow, you seem to have superhuman powers of space measurement estimation from the back of a driver, which is usually smaller than the front.  I will see what response I get, but for now I have no estimation and my 10mm response was tongue in cheek.

 

And the Italian fellow said he is working on tuning the EP-10 Plus with less bass (I hope it is only mid-bass) just for me, but due to demand (his musician clients continue to praise the quality of bass for what they do), he has little time to develop and test.  I really hope that if he does do all this work, it turns out sounding good, and I would love to go to Italy and see a performer with the space ship looking custom sticking out of their ears!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by spekkio View Post

I've always been curious - How do the BA drivers stay in place inside the custom shell? Is it stuck on to the shell by glue or something? I can't seem to see anything resembling glue. What is preventing them from moving and rattling when you shake them?


     Quote:

Originally Posted by JackKontney View Post

Great question. Sensaphonics encases the driver(s) in solid silicone, ensuring the drivers stay in position with no unwanted rattling or vibration.


I currently have 4 customs in my hands; 2 of which are hollow acrylic shells.  Both appear to hold the drivers in place without any glue, but they do seem like they are placed so they won't move.  The Fabs has the crossover, which is in soft tubing between the drivers and shell, and the X3 drivers are next to each other with some part butted up against the shell so there are at least 3 contact points.

 

Jack, I think you mean rattling/vibration during travel, such as having the monitor in a box in the back of a truck or dropping them, right?  I hope my head doesn't have enough unwanted rattling/vibration to change anything within the acrylic shell.  I would think if the sound tube is stiff enough, when combined with how they are butted up against the sides, there wouldn't be an issue, at least for the normal head-fier that takes decent care of their equipment.  For a traveling musician or head-fier that is rough on their equipment, who knows, but I don't want to speculate.

 

Others can chime in to see if there is anything to add.

post #67 of 4078



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post


Wow, you seem to have superhuman powers

Finally, you perceive a small part of the Power that is Kunlun.

post #68 of 4078

cat-gif-cards.gif

Click on the picture to Behold!

post #69 of 4078
Quote:
Jack, I think you mean rattling/vibration during travel, such as having the monitor in a box in the back of a truck or dropping them, right?  I hope my head doesn't have enough unwanted rattling/vibration to change anything within the acrylic shell.

I speak of unwanted vibration of the drivers themselves if not firmly mounted or loosen in their moorings. I frankly don't know if that's an issue with drivers mounted in acrylic shells, which is why I said it was a good question. I speak only for Sensaphonics products, in which such potential mechanical problems are physically not possible.

 

post #70 of 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackKontney View Post

I speak of unwanted vibration of the drivers themselves if not firmly mounted or loosen in their moorings. I frankly don't know if that's an issue with drivers mounted in acrylic shells, which is why I said it was a good question. I speak only for Sensaphonics products, in which such potential mechanical problems are physically not possible.

 


On that note.  I'm curious how much movement the drivers and Xover experience during the insertion process.  I know the material is more rigid than say a gummy bear, lol, but there must be some movement.  Is there any stress put on the wires and their contact points w/ the drivers?  Obviously there is some slack added to the wiring I imagine.  Just curious.

 

Also, we keep hearing about the possibility of detachable cables in the future w/ silicone.  Is this going to happen anytime soon or is it a rumor and urban legend that will never materialize?

 

Does being fully encapsulated in silicone affect low end response at all of the bass driver?  I've been curious whether some low drivers like a bit of air movement.

 

One last thing, does silicone have a shrink rate w/ the type you use that might impact changes to fit and seal over time?

 


Edited by Anaxilus - 3/25/11 at 10:00am
post #71 of 4078

I'll try to address these questions briefly...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post


On that note.  I'm curious how much movement the drivers and Xover experience during the insertion process.  I know the material is more rigid than say a gummy bear, lol, but there must be some movement.  Is there any stress put on the wires and their contact points w/ the drivers?  Obviously there is some slack added to the wiring I imagine.  Just curious.

 

Also, we keep hearing about the possibility of detachable cables in the future w/ silicone.  Is this going to happen anytime soon or is it a rumor and urban legend that will never materialize?

 

Does being fully encapsulated in silicone affect low end response at all of the bass driver?  I've been curious whether some low drivers like a bit of air movement.

 

One last thing, does silicone have a shrink rate w/ the type you use that might impact changes to fit and seal over time?

 

 

1. Obviously there's some movement, as the silicone material flexes significantly, but this is generally confined to the exit port end of the the earphones. All I can really say is there is no documented case of a Sensaphonics silicone earpiece failing due to insertion. Ever.

 

2. All Sensaphonics silicone IEMs come with detachable cables as standard -- right now.

 

3. I can only speak to the actual response, which is basically flat. BA drivers do NOT require "a bit of air." Dynamics, however, do.

 

4. Our cold-cure, medical grade silicone formulation does not shrink over time. In fact, just as it maintains seal during excessive jaw movement, the material's pliability actually allows it to maintain fit and seal in the face of minor changes to the user's ear canal.

 

Hope this helps.

post #72 of 4078

Well, sure DDs need more air of course.  Thx.

post #73 of 4078
Quote:
Originally Posted by spekkio View Post

I've always been curious - How do the BA drivers stay in place inside the custom shell? Is it stuck on to the shell by glue or something? I can't seem to see anything resembling glue. What is preventing them from moving and rattling when you shake them?

In acrylic shells drivers are glued to the surface. There're few types of adhesives used. Some use cyan - that's commonly used to glue sound tubes to drivers. However the most popular way of gluing drivers to the shell is to use UV curable glue. When you have open shell without faceplate you simply put drivers and crossover inside spread with UV glue and light it with UV. Glue is transparent thus you can't see the junction. Drivers should be glued to the inside of a shell.

In acrylic IEMs a vibration from the driver itself are transfered to the shell. It affects (in theory) the sound. Sillicone reduce driver's own vibration to minimum.
 

 

post #74 of 4078

Useful thread, thanks for putting this together.  One change to the chart:  Ultimate Ears is no longer offering the silicone tip as an option on the IERM (or any other model).  It's acrylic only.

post #75 of 4078
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JackKontney View Post

I speak of unwanted vibration of the drivers themselves if not firmly mounted or loosen in their moorings. I frankly don't know if that's an issue with drivers mounted in acrylic shells, which is why I said it was a good question. I speak only for Sensaphonics products, in which such potential mechanical problems are physically not possible.

 


I can't imagine that would be an issue or someone would have brought it up by now somewhere.  Unless there is extreme force, I don't see the drivers moving at all.  I can shake them and they don't move as far as I can tell.  And the EM3 Pro drivers are encased in pure acrylic, so there is no movement possible for the internals of that custom.


Quote:
Originally Posted by JackKontney View Post

I'll try to address these questions briefly...
 

 

1. Obviously there's some movement, as the silicone material flexes significantly, but this is generally confined to the exit port end of the the earphones. All I can really say is there is no documented case of a Sensaphonics silicone earpiece failing due to insertion. Ever.

 

2. All Sensaphonics silicone IEMs come with detachable cables as standard -- right now.

 

3. I can only speak to the actual response, which is basically flat. BA drivers do NOT require "a bit of air." Dynamics, however, do.

 

4. Our cold-cure, medical grade silicone formulation does not shrink over time. In fact, just as it maintains seal during excessive jaw movement, the material's pliability actually allows it to maintain fit and seal in the face of minor changes to the user's ear canal.

 

Hope this helps.


3. During my conversations with many custom driver manufacturers, this is not a true statement.  Sure, sealed BA drivers are fine encased in silicone, but there are vented BA drivers, with one example being the Kozee Infinity X3  with the executive option.  You can see a picture of the vented drivers shown in the last picture here.  From conversing with various manufacturers, venting will generally result in larger soundstage size and change the bass response.

 

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)