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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 269

post #4021 of 4261

Any plans to review K10 or Roxanne?

post #4022 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 
Disclaimer:  I am relatively 'purist' in the sense that I try to avoid, whenever possible, invoking EQ of any kind.


With that said, however....

I am curious as to how the NT6Pro compares to the NT6 if EQ is used to level-out the NT6's bass response.


Has anyone tried comparing the 2 stablemates in this manner?
You mean to make NT6's bass sound like pro? I wouldn't do that because bass is very easy to get distorted.

I was EQing my CIEMs for like almost 1 year, by end I notice that EQ will always be the last option. Always stick to real sound first smily_headphones1.gif
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepGroove View Post

 

I believe in numbers too and I think your chart is great. The problem with claims such as "it goes insanely deep" or simply "it has more bass" is that they do not give you a sense of relative proportion. Are we talking about 1% more bass, 5%, 20%? Your chart ranks quality and quantity in a way that is difficult to misinterpret. Based on my experience it tells me that my ideal bass level should be 92-93. Reading posts and engaging in discussion is enough to provide the details.
I understand, that's why I put the bass presence column in blue, because it was just a relative number. As I said to AJ, I need to put way more columns in such as sub bass, mid bass, upper bass. But for people who cant differentiate, it will just be more confusing. smily_headphones1.gif

Tupac, please do add the additional columns if you can. Yours and AJs charts are awesome now, but that would make them even "awesomer...erer". More data = better when it comes to splitting hairs like we are.
post #4023 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

Well, in that case, I feel that it might be a bit of an issue that the NT6 Pro cannot be driven optimally from typical sources. Yes, most things improve with better sources, but I don't think they should "need" a better source. That's why in an apples-to-apples F886 comparison, I can only say that I like the H8's bass texture better than that of the NT6 Pro. Again, that's no knock on the NT6 Pro, because I like it, but the H8 and H8Pro's bass sound essentially unparalleled.

 

That's the pain of owning the NT6 Pro, to really hear what it's capable of (esp. in the bass department) it demands a totl amp / dac. Not only that, it is very amp / dac picky. One wrong component can really throw off its performance. If you ever have the opportunity, give the NT6 Pro a second chance paired with the Wagnus Epsilon S amp.

post #4024 of 4261

Gutted.  Looks like my Minerva mi1's have developed a fault on the left.  Everything seems hard shifted to right.  Tried it out on other sources and it still happens.  My other headphones are fine so it looks like it's the mi's :(.  Considering I use them as earplugs as well to block 90% of the **** at work it's going to be annoying.

post #4025 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post
 

Gutted.  Looks like my Minerva mi1's have developed a fault on the left.  Everything seems hard shifted to right.  Tried it out on other sources and it still happens.  My other headphones are fine so it looks like it's the mi's :(.  Considering I use them as earplugs as well to block 90% of the **** at work it's going to be annoying.

 

I know you are experienced, so this is absolutely not trying to teach you to suck eggs.

 

I'm simply asking the question as it may be relevant.

 

Have you tried putting the CIEM in a hearing-aid dryer?

post #4026 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post
 

Gutted.  Looks like my Minerva mi1's have developed a fault on the left.  Everything seems hard shifted to right.  Tried it out on other sources and it still happens.  My other headphones are fine so it looks like it's the mi's :(.  Considering I use them as earplugs as well to block 90% of the **** at work it's going to be annoying.

it is silicone, isn't it? try poking damper with needle ;)

Quote:
 Have you tried putting the CIEM in a hearing-aid dryer?

it won't help unfortunately if there's damper in tubing.


Edited by piotrus-g - 9/1/14 at 4:29am
post #4027 of 4261

I think for using all day at work, 5 days a week, it might be better to use a DD CIEM rather than one with BAs, but I suppose it depends on how physically-demanding one's job is, since sweat vapour is a major factor.

 

I periodically remove my CIEMs, to wipe them, and my ear canal, even when I'm just calmly walking around, during the summer.

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 9/1/14 at 4:56am
post #4028 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

I think for using all day at work, 5 days a week, it might be better to use a DD CIEM rather than one with BAs, but I suppose it depends on how physically-demanding one's job is, since sweat vapour is a major factor.

 

I periodically remove my CIEMs, to wipe them, and my ear canal, even when I'm just calmly walking around, during the summer.

 

 

.


I'm not sure, consider BA are developed for Hearing Aids where there's sweating, ear wax and other factors like weather conditions.

post #4029 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 


I'm not sure, consider BA are developed for Hearing Aids where there's sweating, ear wax and other factors like weather conditions.

 

 

That's a fair point, although I would slightly counter with the fact that few hearing aids fill the ear to the same extent as a CIEM does.

post #4030 of 4261

For the record, I actually very much like BA-based CIEMs.

 

It's just that for very prolonged periods of use, a DD might, perhaps, be a bit less vulnerable.

 

 

My DD-based MG6Pro sound like crap but I'd trust them in a sweaty environment more than I'd trust, say, my old UM Miracles, even though the Miracles sounded 10x better.

 

This is one of the primary reasons why Marty builds his MG5/6Pros with dynamic drivers. His CIEMs are aimed primarily at stage performers needing their CIEMs to have maximum possible resilience to mechanical shock, undesired signal peaks (from a radio pack), and, of course, sweat.

 

But, to be evenhanded about this, I know many, many stage performers around the world use BA-based CIEMs, so... <shrugs shoulders>

 

.


Edited by Mython - 9/1/14 at 5:50am
post #4031 of 4261

Just curious, how many dd based ciems are there?  I know of the hybrid Merlin from UM and the soon to be re released pure from cosmic.  Anything else out there?  Talking of which my Cosmic Ears micros are doing well atm.

post #4032 of 4261
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post
 

Just curious, how many dd based ciems are there?  I know of the hybrid Merlin from UM and the soon to be re released pure from cosmic.  Anything else out there?  Talking of which my Cosmic Ears micros are doing well atm.

Future Sonics mg5pro and mg6pro. 

post #4033 of 4261

There are a few others as well. The Aurisonics AS-1, plus the ix9 Pro that Joe reviewed a while back, both come to mind. 

post #4034 of 4261
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

very nice way to describe technical ability vs sound tuning using skills of taking images with high end camera! Right on!

Jh Roxanne to my ears is like a professional camera with super versatile functions (high technical ability), however the picture (sound) looks like taken from someone who can only use iPhone (not focused enough)

In contrast? VE stage 2 is like a average sony digital camera, but the picture looks much more focused, with great contrast within its ability.

Now I understand what you mean by resolution. It's basically everything related to imaging/presentation. Speaking of directional bass, I don't hear many directions from se5. But H8p and surprisingly 1+2 can deliver it to some extent.

 

I hear ya.  Some photographers are just better than others and can take great pictures with less than perfect cameras.

 

Yes, resolution is everything presentation/imaging + detail level.

 

The better bass control and quicker attack/decay/release, the more directional capability in my experience.  The SE5 bass driver benefits from great amping.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I think a good drum recording track can reveal the bass texture or definition ability of an IEM.  Also the dimentionality of the bass provides realism which I have noticed with over ear phones.  HD800 excels at this to provides more believable bass that needs dimentional definition which I believe cans will provide.  I noticed this with one source that is able to drive both HD800 and the NT6.  The HD800 provided much more believeable bass so it had realize that CIEMs have the limitations and the way the sound is presented over the ear could contribuit to better bass imaging and definition.  Then I tried the DAC2, and interestingly the NT6 wasn't as far off from the HD800 besides the difference of over ear to in ear sound.  It was quite shocking how an in ear could have a wide stage presentation and imaging.  The contrast can be heard if going from an AK240 to the DAC2, sound becomes much more expansive.  Even the vocals became more articulate and brought out the recording's definition(noticed this with Eva Cassidy's vocals).  Same for the bass.  This tells me definition is quite source dependent if the IEM is able to scale with the source. 

 

Wizard posted the youtube video below awhile back, and I notice the difference in the way the sound is defined when he strikes the bass drum with an over ear HD800 and the NT6(other than DAC2).  If the CIEM doesn't define bass well, it will not output the recording's bass drum's definitions. One recording that had the most realistic drum is from a Marantz Audiophile test CD called, Jiangzhou drums - Buffaloes Tiger, which is a recording of a Chinese drums.  In this case, it seems the defintion of drum is more recording dependent since the recording is done so well, but I'm sure with a better equipment, the definition gets better.  Anybody have better recordings that will show off bass ability?

 

I have heard several Asian drum groups that have bass directional detail.  I can't recall a pop track that has bass directional detail, but I have heard plenty of intricacies within the bass of some tracks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

Admittedly, I only used a FiiO E11K or just used the Sony F886 directly to listen to the NT6 Pro. However, I heard the H8 and H8P direct from the F886.

 

I think it depends on preferences. The H8 and H8P won't sound quite as "dynamic", as in it'll feel more subdued compared to the NT6 Pro. I actually do like the NT6 Pro a lot; at this point I might even say it's a better overall choice than the NT6 (and the Viento-R for that matter).

 

However, nothing beats the texture and layering of the bass in either Harmony model. If you have music that is very complex in the bass section, with different bass instruments that intersect with other instruments in the lower midrange, the Harmony does an awesome job of showing you how they're all laid out together. IMHO, that's the Harmony's greatest strength. It does midrange and treble well, of course, but it's the bass and the sheer articulation of it that really stands out for me.

 

One challenge of evaluation IMO is using different sources, or especially a source that can be a limiting factor.  i have experienced a general correlation between the limiting factor of a source and the price.  For example, a lower-end source will not allow a TOTL CIEM to perform at its best, but the same source will push CIEM in the same range to much closer to its limit.  I do believe this is where people reading about just how great something is based off a great source and then using a low-end source once they get it and being disappointed comes from.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

Disclaimer:  I am relatively 'purist' in the sense that I try to avoid, whenever possible, invoking EQ of any kind.

 

 

With that said, however....

 

I am curious as to how the NT6Pro compares to the NT6 if EQ is used to level-out the NT6Pro's bass response.

 

Has anyone tried comparing the 2 stablemates in this manner?

 

I believe the bass drivers are the same between the two and it is just a matter of tuning.  Theoretically, you should be able to EQ the bass of the NT-6 to that of the pro with similar results, but I haven't actually tried it.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by KimChee View Post
 

Any plans to review K10 or Roxanne?

 

Not at the moment, but maybe the 12-driver UE reshell if my JH16 ever makes it there.  Also, I trust tupac's opinion on both… 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by zachchen1996 View Post
 

That's the pain of owning the NT6 Pro, to really hear what it's capable of (esp. in the bass department) it demands a totl amp / dac. Not only that, it is very amp / dac picky. One wrong component can really throw off its performance. If you ever have the opportunity, give the NT6 Pro a second chance paired with the Wagnus Epsilon S amp.

 

I would say that is the same with all TOTL CIEMs, but some to a larger extent than others.  I think the NT6 Pro is easier to drive than many other CIEMs, as those with quicker attacks and shorter releases typically are easier to drive.  The limit is more about the performance of the DAC and lack of spatial recreation with lower end sources while the "organic" sound sigs seem to need a better amp also for better control.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post
 

Gutted.  Looks like my Minerva mi1's have developed a fault on the left.  Everything seems hard shifted to right.  Tried it out on other sources and it still happens.  My other headphones are fine so it looks like it's the mi's :(.  Considering I use them as earplugs as well to block 90% of the **** at work it's going to be annoying.

 

If the recommendations here don't work, contact Minerva.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post
 

Just curious, how many dd based ciems are there?  I know of the hybrid Merlin from UM and the soon to be re released pure from cosmic.  Anything else out there?  Talking of which my Cosmic Ears micros are doing well atm.

 

Futuresonics, Advanced AcousticWerkes, Aurisonics, and a few small US based companies have dynamics that I know of.  Beat Audio/Wan Xuan used to make one, but I think they stopped (you can email Stephen @ custom-iem.com to find out more).

 

There are many hybrids including the Merlin, several offerings from Rooth, Advanced AcousticWerkes, Perfect Seal, Lear, Thousand Sound, and EarPower to name a few. 

post #4035 of 4261

David, let's not forget that we don't yet conclusively know if your Minervas have a humidity-related fault or if it may turn out to be electrical or mechanical :normal_smile : 

 

So don't get that creditcard out just yet!

 

 :beerchug: 

 

 

 

But please let us know what transpires when they've had a chance to examine them for you.

 

 

.


Edited by Mython - 9/1/14 at 11:22am
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