or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 255

post #3811 of 4815
Isn't skin effect related to frequencies like 100kHz+?
With frequencies like those in earphones voltage travels through core of conductor
Edited by piotrus-g - 7/9/14 at 3:03am
post #3812 of 4815
Thread Starter 

Hidition announced their new CIEM: the Viento-R.  Four drivers and two switches that control the timbre.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

They actually don't sound much like the Stage 4; the Stage 4 sounds like the UE18 to me, which is not my cuppa' tea.

 

If I had to characterize it, it'd be a better extended and slightly more U-shaped, but much more resolving Stage 3. The timbre sounds different because of a different tweeter selection, and the midrange detail has more in common with the Stage 4U (flatter version of the Stage 4, the Stage 4 has too much mid-bass/lower-mid psychoacoustic masking). In a way, it brings together the Stage 3 and 4(U) in a balanced package.

 

I have no idea if the VE Stage 6 X1/2 is better or worse; but it seems like Felix is the more experienced of the two, and I was impressed by the build quality of Rhines. No idea if VE matches it or betters it.

 

I have only heard the UE18 demo about 5 times, but that is quite unlistenable to me and the Stage 4 is better.  Nice description, thanks!

 

That would be interesting to compare, the new VE vs. Rhines stuff.  VE had an impressive build quality also, at least for the demos, but yes, Rhines is excellent!

post #3813 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post
 

Hidition announced their new CIEM: the Viento-R.  Four drivers and two switches that control the timbre.

 

I have only heard the UE18 demo about 5 times, but that is quite unlistenable to me and the Stage 4 is better.  Nice description, thanks!

 

That would be interesting to compare, the new VE vs. Rhines stuff.  VE had an impressive build quality also, at least for the demos, but yes, Rhines is excellent!

Same here.  UE18 is colored, and not for me, but it can be for others that likes that sig.

 

Regarding the Viento-R, I saw your webpage regarding it.  I didn't know the small hump was mids. I like the EQ option.  


Edited by SilverEars - 7/15/14 at 10:09pm
post #3814 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsn141 View Post
 

I have no article about that, but insulator coating changes sound, one reson is leakage and anouther reason  signals traport at surface of conductor. you can not see that affect at graphs.

If there was skin effect, the graph should have shown rise of impedance with freequency, and looks like it shows that with those headphone cables in the audio frequency, there is no real skin effect.

 

The coating is an insulator, it does not conduct.  The electrons(the signal) only movies through a conductor and there is no leakage since there is insulator coating.  The shielding is just metal sheet or braiding to cancel RF noise, and has no relationship to the conductor.


 I remember reading that skin effect could have measurable effect starting to show around 16khz( I mean measurable, not audible and it wasn't on heaphone cables).

on IEM cable this has a very much meaningless impact, and it's pointless to even think about it unless the manufacturer puts a great deal of efforts into messing things up on purpose(messes up the signal and pretends it's an upgrade). and even for obsessed people, let's get real for a sec, how many customs do you own that didn't roll off long before 16khz? let's solve BA driver weaknesses before we try to invent problems on IEM cables that don't actually have any effect.

 

the coating helps keep left and right separated so I guess it could impact the crosstalk value somehow (but I never found anything to help me figure the possible magnitude with a music signal). and same for shielding, the thickness of the insulator will play a part with inductance and in the end, change the impedance value a little(shielding = more impedance).

so all in all, yes the impedance changes (at least for almost all IEM cables) are by far the most impactful changes on audio. even more so on multi BA where the crossovers usually make the impedance response over frequencies look like space mountain. turning big changes in cable+source impedance, into a messy EQ.

 

anyway, if the IEM manufacturer is not an idiot, he will probably tune his IEM with and for the default cable. so why bother?

post #3815 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post  Hidition announced their new CIEM: the Viento-R.  Four drivers and two switches that control the timbre.

 

I have only heard the UE18 demo about 5 times, but that is quite unlistenable to me and the Stage 4 is better.  Nice description, thanks!

 

That would be interesting to compare, the new VE vs. Rhines stuff.  VE had an impressive build quality also, at least for the demos, but yes, Rhines is excellent!

 

The Stage 4 definitely has more mids presence than the UE18; the UE18 has a weird mid scoop that makes it sound really funky. I feel UE was trying to create a really wide open sound at the expense of clarity. The UE18 does one thing really well, however --- delicate treble timbre, and that's the one aspect of sound that I felt was not as good in the Stage 4, otherwise, the Stage 4 is the better choice. It's confusing that UE could do so well with the UERM and yet bomb so hard with the UE18; the UE18 was made with the input of mostly musicians, though, and sometimes I really don't know what musicians want to hear. The UE18 is actually really complicated internally. It has several tubing mergers.

 

I don't know what the situation is with the Stage 4U -- it appears that it is an exclusive for JM-Plus, Rhines' East Asia partner for Japan and Taiwan, so people who want it will have to order through them. Timbre-wise, it sounds similar to the Stage 4, but the sound signature is much more like the Stage 3, with a very detailed midrange (more detailed than the Stage 3, and on par with the Stage 5). In fact, it's got one of the most detailed midranges I've heard, but does have a tendency to sound a little dry. Bass is similar to the Stage 3 in impact but with a little more in the sub-bass.

 

I wish I could listen to the VE6 XControl demo, but I'd have to take a two-hour trip just to hear it, so it's kind of out of the question, considering the schedule I keep.

 

The Viento-R looks interesting, but people are going overboard with the switch concept these days. What I'd really like to see is dynamic tube length adjustment, but I think that's an engineering impossibility (for now).

post #3816 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

The Stage 4 definitely has more mids presence than the UE18; the UE18 has a weird mid scoop that makes it sound really funky. I feel UE was trying to create a really wide open sound at the expense of clarity. The UE18 does one thing really well, however --- delicate treble timbre, and that's the one aspect of sound that I felt was not as good in the Stage 4, otherwise, the Stage 4 is the better choice. It's confusing that UE could do so well with the UERM and yet bomb so hard with the UE18; the UE18 was made with the input of mostly musicians, though, and sometimes I really don't know what musicians want to hear. The UE18 is actually really complicated internally. It has several tubing mergers.

 

I don't know what the situation is with the Stage 4U -- it appears that it is an exclusive for JM-Plus, Rhines' East Asia partner for Japan and Taiwan, so people who want it will have to order through them. Timbre-wise, it sounds similar to the Stage 4, but the sound signature is much more like the Stage 3, with a very detailed midrange (more detailed than the Stage 3, and on par with the Stage 5). In fact, it's got one of the most detailed midranges I've heard, but does have a tendency to sound a little dry. Bass is similar to the Stage 3 in impact but with a little more in the sub-bass.

 

I wish I could listen to the VE6 XControl demo, but I'd have to take a two-hour trip just to hear it, so it's kind of out of the question, considering the schedule I keep.

 

The Viento-R looks interesting, but people are going overboard with the switch concept these days. What I'd really like to see is dynamic tube length adjustment, but I think that's an engineering impossibility (for now).

Why? :basshead:  What does that do?  You mean for CIEMs?  That would be difficult since the tube curves.

post #3817 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

 What I'd really like to see is dynamic tube length adjustment, but I think that's an engineering impossibility (for now).

Yes it's an impossibility considering you and I and everyone on this board do not share the same ear canals. The least you can do is to vary tube length ratio but that's also somewhat depending on the shape of of your ear canals. 

 

Or you can do it for universals, though I've never seen anyone doing that save for FitEar & LEAR.

post #3818 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post What I'd really like to see is dynamic tube length adjustment, but I think that's an engineering impossibility (for now).

Hmmm, nice idea, but there are several problems. I'd say it would be only possible in universal IEMs, plus what would be a point of doing that? The outcome is pretty unpredictable sound-wise. Also you'd need around 1cm adjustment range to actually have any use of this.

post #3819 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 

Hmmm, nice idea, but there are several problems. I'd say it would be only possible in universal IEMs, plus what would be a point of doing that? The outcome is pretty unpredictable sound-wise. Also you'd need around 1cm adjustment range to actually have any use of this.

 

 

Now we're gonna see someone make some IEMs in the shape of miniature trombones! :tongue:

post #3820 of 4815
Thread Starter 

It might not be a trombone, but the first (to my knowledge) silicone shelled hybrid CIEM has been made: the Perfect Seal Fusion 11.  Nice coherence and interchangeable plugs allow changing the bass level.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

The Stage 4 definitely has more mids presence than the UE18; the UE18 has a weird mid scoop that makes it sound really funky. I feel UE was trying to create a really wide open sound at the expense of clarity. The UE18 does one thing really well, however --- delicate treble timbre, and that's the one aspect of sound that I felt was not as good in the Stage 4, otherwise, the Stage 4 is the better choice. It's confusing that UE could do so well with the UERM and yet bomb so hard with the UE18; the UE18 was made with the input of mostly musicians, though, and sometimes I really don't know what musicians want to hear. The UE18 is actually really complicated internally. It has several tubing mergers.

 

I don't know what the situation is with the Stage 4U -- it appears that it is an exclusive for JM-Plus, Rhines' East Asia partner for Japan and Taiwan, so people who want it will have to order through them. Timbre-wise, it sounds similar to the Stage 4, but the sound signature is much more like the Stage 3, with a very detailed midrange (more detailed than the Stage 3, and on par with the Stage 5). In fact, it's got one of the most detailed midranges I've heard, but does have a tendency to sound a little dry. Bass is similar to the Stage 3 in impact but with a little more in the sub-bass.

 

I wish I could listen to the VE6 XControl demo, but I'd have to take a two-hour trip just to hear it, so it's kind of out of the question, considering the schedule I keep.

 

The Viento-R looks interesting, but people are going overboard with the switch concept these days. What I'd really like to see is dynamic tube length adjustment, but I think that's an engineering impossibility (for now).

 

Sure, the UE18 sells, but I can't imagine people buying it after comparing it with other similarly priced products.  I think the UE11 is better, and pretty much everything else in their lineup.  To me, it is like they tried to be all things to all people and ended up with a bit of a mess.  Maybe having a customized version would change my thinking, but I am not sure I would even want to try.

 

There are so many options out there these days from so many manufacturers.  I wonder if the Stage 4U would lose any of the magic I thought the regular Stage 4 has in the presentation in exchange for accuracy?  If there was only more time in a day!

 

I like the switch concept from the perspective of people being able to have multiple sound signatures with the same CIEM.  Take the Lime Ears LE3SW for example, which I am nearing completion of my review.  Separately the LE3 and LE3B don't impress me much (well, the LE3B conveys power quite well for a triple driver), but the combination of different sound signatures allows someone to have a near "stage" sound (bass-heavy, forward, with relaxed treble) and a "reference" sound (more neutral, laid-back, and analytical).  The M-Fidelity switches are a bit different though.  It remains to be heard where the Hidition falls.

post #3821 of 4815
Average Joe,
Thank you so much for compiling this comprehensive CIEM resource.
I was wondering if you or others could give me some advice. I would like to purchase my first set of CIEMs, after having enjoyed a number of universal IEMs for many years, including the ER-4 and Triple-Fi. The problem is that I have developed moderate high frequency hearing loss, roughly the same in both ears. My preference is for relatively bright sound that presents a lot of detail with clarity and some sparkle in the treble range, and a fairly neutral sound with clarity and good instrument separation throughout. I listen to a lot of classical music and jazz, but enjoy every genre. If hearing loss weren't an issue, after reading your reviews I would probably choose the NT-6. My question is, given my high frequency deficit, would I be better off (not considering money) choosing the UE PRM with the intention of adjusting up the higher end, or perhaps the NT-6 pro because of its treble enhancement? I appreciate any help in thinking this through.
post #3822 of 4815

I was about to suggest UE PRM, but I see you already have this considered.

 

If you fancy a silicone option, you could also consider the Custom Art Harmony 8 Pro


Edited by Mython - 7/17/14 at 11:34am
post #3823 of 4815
Don't think H8P a good option for him:) It is actually a warm sounding CIEM. 

 

I think NT6 or NT6 p should be good choice. I assume he has lost the hearing for ultra high frequencies? So NT6 and NT6 p has a lot of mid treble presentation. So they should still fit.

 

Or maybe consider something that has lifted lower treble region, such as miracle, mentor, LS8+ or PP6. But in terms of brightness, I don't think anything is as bright as NT6/6p. :)

post #3824 of 4815

Thank you for these responses.  I'm reading up on the other options you've mentioned.

post #3825 of 4815

Even though I mostly like it, the Miracle lacks sufficient realism in the treble. With classical music and (especially) jazz, this might prove disappointing.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)