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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 254

post #3796 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I've been looking at Rin's cable measurments on his NT6 review(what a coincidence), and notice he shows the cable load graphs showing skews of 1dB from 2ohm difference of impedance.  I curious what the impedance of the Whiplash is?  I figure, as long as I can match the impedance of that cable, it cause the same changes to the NT6's FR.  I'm curious if you are hearing changes with the treble as the impedance drops at the treble region to close to 6ohms.  The high impedance cable he measured was up to 2.4 and the low is 1.3.  Wonder what the difference of the value of the impedance of the stock cable and the whiplash cable.  Wonder how the whiplash cable would affect the sound.  As you can see the cable is purely resistive, a flat line through the spectrum, but when checking the power drop with frequency, the cable with high resistance skews at the treble region, but 1dB.  I wonder how this affects the output? If the cable is 2.4ohms, that's still close to 1/3 of the treble impedance.  The cable can drop the treble power as the right cable graph shows.  I wonder if the Whiplash is getting rid of the treble peaks?

 

 

k32qEom.jpg


shwl: Nordost 7N, OCC-7N silver-plated
rubin: Hidition old stock, Hidition new stock, 5N copper, DIYer(fate)'s flourescent cable, Nordost 7N
udauda(Rin): $20 Furutech cable from Ebay, Ultimate Ears stock

My friends have sent me seven cables for this analysis, and my two cables are added to the pot. As expected, the OCC-7N silver plated cable and the Ebay furutech have the highest conductance, while rubin's Nortost 7N performs worse than others, indicating my friend rubin has been completely scammed.


Ow8aW5p.jpg
And the actual electrical conductivity of each cable goes like this:

OCC-7N > Furutech > UE stock > shwl's Nordost 7N > New Hidition stock > 5N > Old Hidition stock >  Fate's DIY flourescent cable > rubin's Nordost 7N

Thank You for these graphs;
I added something about resistance;
Sometimes there is no resistance but there is some have a damping factor, or leakage- to out- some high frequencies or energy. As everybody know cable coating is impartant for that factor.

post #3797 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Idsynchrono_24 View Post  ^Man that was the most confusing post for a sec there. All I saw was Stage 5 and the form factor which made me think, "oh hey, maybe Stagediver have finally added some treble to their phones" then I saw Rhines and was like, "...wat." Then I reread your post and was like, "ooooh." :l

 

People keep confusing the InEar Stage Diver series with the VE/Rhines Stage series...

post #3798 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

People keep confusing the InEar Stage Diver series with the VE/Rhines Stage series...

 

 

Annoying, isn't it?

 

 

Somebody should 'stage' a protest...

post #3799 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

 

Annoying, isn't it?

 

 

Somebody should 'stage' a protest...


I wouldn't "Dive" into conclusions so fast from just one typo ;)

post #3800 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post
 


I wouldn't "Dive" into conclusions so fast from just one typo ;)

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post
 

 

 

Annoying, isn't it?

 

 

Somebody should 'stage' a protest...

lol :D

post #3801 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

 

People keep confusing the InEar Stage Diver series with the VE/Rhines Stage series...

 

 

At this stage, it would be premature to forget Stage93 with their flagship Stage6 model.

post #3802 of 4231
Yup. None of this is confusing at all
post #3803 of 4231
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sithjedi333 View Post
 

 

Thanks AJ,

 

I wouldn't reshell the 1plus2, I would keep them stock. I'm not really wedded to the DN1000 soundsig, it's just of the limited few I've tried, it sounds nice. I actually don't like recessed mids, I guess my preferred soundsig would be boosted bass and flat mids and treble. Yeah if the NT6es are even colder, they're probably out. I'm not sure what cold means though, the glossary says lacking in body or warmth which sounds undesirable, but I thought the Pro had boosted bass (or adaptive boosted bass)?

 

I've followed the Rhines/Vision and from what I can gather, after a lot of initial excitement, the TOTL mafia cooled off on them, especially given the high pricetag. 

 

We'll see how the 1plus2 is and go from there. I have a pair on the way. Probably SE 5way next. Welcome to any suggestions though.

 

Thanks again.

 

No problem, happy to help.

 

It sounds like you could use some "protection" to make sure you get the right IEM/CIEM, regardless of the TOTL status.  I will be by to discuss your options later...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivabign View Post
 

I don't think anyone reshells a 1+2 - half the magic is in the enclosure....

 

I have often wondered how close any reshell is to the real thing, unless done by the original manufacturer.  Unless you have 2 of something, there is no real way of knowing.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SilverEars View Post
 

I've been looking at Rin's cable measurments on his NT6 review(what a coincidence), and notice he shows the cable load graphs showing skews of 1dB from 2ohm difference of impedance.  I curious what the impedance of the Whiplash is?  

 

Is impedance really the only important measure?  How about capacitance and inductance?  I would think that impedance could explain differences between materials, but capacitance and inductance, which could change crossover performance as much or more than impedance, should be explored.  They are the bigger factors IMO as how cables are braided/twisted combined with the jacket material and thickness will change the parameters.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
 

Or more like they never take sides against the family...

 

I was impressed by the Stage 5 demo I heard. I'll probably have a quick overview of the Rhines demos up in a day or so.

 

Rhines Custom Monitors - Stage 5

 

I might actually buy a pair. (Okay, almost certainly)

 

The only reason is that their retailer made me an offer I can't refuse (payment plan). Otherwise, I wouldn't have the Euros to spend on something like this.

 

Wow, they must be good for you to make a commitment :biggrin:

 

I can only imagine their sound sig from hearing the Stage 4 demo and talking with Rhines, but would think they have some merit for serious consideration.

post #3804 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post  Wow, they must be good for you to make a commitment :biggrin:

 

I can only imagine their sound sig from hearing the Stage 4 demo and talking with Rhines, but would think they have some merit for serious consideration.

 

They actually don't sound much like the Stage 4; the Stage 4 sounds like the UE18 to me, which is not my cuppa' tea.

 

If I had to characterize it, it'd be a better extended and slightly more U-shaped, but much more resolving Stage 3. The timbre sounds different because of a different tweeter selection, and the midrange detail has more in common with the Stage 4U (flatter version of the Stage 4, the Stage 4 has too much mid-bass/lower-mid psychoacoustic masking). In a way, it brings together the Stage 3 and 4(U) in a balanced package.

 

I have no idea if the VE Stage 6 X1/2 is better or worse; but it seems like Felix is the more experienced of the two, and I was impressed by the build quality of Rhines. No idea if VE matches it or betters it.

post #3805 of 4231

How UE18 sounds like btw? Is it a bassheavy ciem?

post #3806 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

Is impedance really the only important measure?  How about capacitance and inductance?  I would think that impedance could explain differences between materials, but capacitance and inductance, which could change crossover performance as much or more than impedance, should be explored.  They are the bigger factors IMO as how cables are braided/twisted combined with the jacket material and thickness will change the parameters.

Hi joe, thanks for responding to my question. Impedance is not always resistance.  Impedance is more general term that could mean, capacitance, inductance, resistance, or combination of.  If you look at the impedance graph, you will see peaks, they are shaped by the reactive(capacitance, inductance) parts in the drivers that we call resonance points.  

 

If you look at the top graph, impedance is flat, which means it's pretty much resistive, which means capacitance or inductance is very negligible.  What you are seeing with the bottom two graphs which is power transferred to the load(the NT6) through the cable.  Since the cable's impedance dips down as low as 8ohms at the treble frequency, if 2.4 ohms cable is used, you will lose more than 20% of power transfer, which will translate to less treble output.  Why this is significant is, if you look at the graph, some frequencies has barely any loss because compared to the impedance value at the frequency, it's negligible, but at the treble it's enough to drop 20% of power.  So therefore, FR will change with the 2.4ohm cable. 

 

Given what I see from Rin's graphs, I would have to conclude, it's basically adding small amount of resistance between the output of the source and the headphone.  I will have to conclude that the Whiplash cable is nothing more than resistance added to the system.  Curious what the value is?  

 

 

k32qEom.jpg


shwl: Nordost 7N, OCC-7N silver-plated
rubin: Hidition old stock, Hidition new stock, 5N copper, DIYer(fate)'s flourescent cable, Nordost 7N
udauda(Rin): $20 Furutech cable from Ebay, Ultimate Ears stock

My friends have sent me seven cables for this analysis, and my two cables are added to the pot. As expected, the OCC-7N silver plated cable and the Ebay furutech have the highest conductance, while rubin's Nortost 7N performs worse than others, indicating my friend rubin has been completely scammed.


Ow8aW5p.jpg
And the actual electrical conductivity of each cable goes like this:

OCC-7N > Furutech > UE stock > shwl's Nordost 7N > New Hidition stock > 5N > Old Hidition stock >  Fate's DIY flourescent cable > rubin's Nordost 7N


Edited by SilverEars - 7/8/14 at 10:26pm
post #3807 of 4231

Do not forget leakge of conductor, high frequencies affected most. This arrange by changing shield of cable. It can not show on impedace graphs.


Edited by tsn141 - 7/8/14 at 10:45pm
post #3808 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsn141 View Post
 

Do not forget leakge of condutor, high frequencies affected most. This arrange by changing shield of cable. It can not show on impedace graphs.

What do you mean by this?  I don't know of any leakage.  Can you link me to an article about it?  Or post some information regarding it?  I'm interested in finding out about it.

post #3809 of 4231

I have no article about that, but insulator coating changes sound, one reson is leakage and another reason  signals traport at surface of conductor. you can not see that affect at graphs but you can hear.


Edited by tsn141 - 7/8/14 at 10:58pm
post #3810 of 4231
Quote:
Originally Posted by tsn141 View Post
 

I have no article about that, but insulator coating changes sound, one reson is leakage and anouther reason  signals traport at surface of conductor. you can not see that affect at graphs.

If there was skin effect, the graph should have shown rise of impedance with freequency, and looks like it shows that with those headphone cables in the audio frequency, there is no real skin effect.

 

The coating is an insulator, it does not conduct.  The electrons(the signal) only movies through a conductor and there is no leakage since there is insulator coating.  The shielding is just metal sheet or braiding to cancel RF noise, and has no relationship to the conductor.


Edited by SilverEars - 7/8/14 at 11:15pm
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