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post #3481 of 4815

I have a question for everybody.

 

What are the bass heavy TOTL ciems? I mean, I am looking for bass heavy but still very high end and quality names.

 

FitEar MH335DW comes to my mind first but ordering it from Eu is, well, quite tricky as you know.

 

Apart from that I remember JH16FP, Heir 8A / Noble 8C. Can anyone add more bass heavy and high end resolution monitors? Maybe new coming Roxanne can be named with its special cable to change the bass.

post #3482 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

Please refrain from offensive remarks such as labelling posts as "trolling", it leads nowhere....

 

Yup, you said it was a decently neutral response, I simply disagree and don't even think it's close based on the data shown, not even decently. 

 

10db boost is simply "ridiculous" IMO, disagree if you'd like but in my experience that kind of boost is not close to decently neutral, in other words, it's exaggerated IMO. GR07 has approximately less than half of the bass boost of this IEM and it's subjectively likable because it does indeed follow every standard fairly well whether it be DF or OW [term which Dr.Olive had no issue with]. One of it's flaw is it's sibilance which indicates there's a unpleasant peak...True about the simulator, but IME, while not precisely accurate, based on the data alone I'll bet pretty good money it's still not high bandwidth as in reaching 20k hz. Insertion depth can change those peaks but won't change that bass boost and the potential limited bandwidth, even then, the claim was made based on the information given, if you are questioning the graph yourself, why make such a claim in the first place? Simply not close to decently neutral based on the information given, I just inform based on my knowledge and I do respect the fact they have given such information in the first place, I just want to make the picture clear. Because I have the right to express my opinion, I have given my reasons, hope this makes it less "hollow". 

 

[edit: LOL just noticed the way the graph is presented is really awkard and compressed in terms of db steps. So I take it back, nothing special though, similar to TDK BA200 but lesss balanced as the whole treble past 6k is pretty hot...ie boosted]

 

So, from your EDIT, you're conceding that you read the chart incorrectly, and that it's NOT +10 dB of boost? And that, by leaving those statements on record, you're NOT making the picture clear? This is my final response to you, as yes, it leads nowhere, as it always does. However, whenever you make posts where you merely look at something perfunctorily and still make provocative statements using words like "ridiculous", you're partaking in irresponsible behavior.

post #3483 of 4815
When it comes to IEMs, my approach is neither subjectivist nor objectivist. My approach can be summarized as "if it makes sound at all frequencies, I'm happy tongue.gif ". In particular, I'm concerned more by the maximum amount of sound pressure the buds are able to make at each frequency without perceptible distortion, rather than any semblance of flat frequency response. That's because I just EQ the heck out of all my phones until they ARE flat. I make my own neutral biggrin.gif With my entrance to the world of CIEMs I predict that this approach will be more successful than ever because the sound tubes are molded to my ear and fixed in place, with very little room for resonant frequencies to move around--unlike circumaural headphones or even universal IEMs to some extent. (assuming I get my fit issues sorted out redface.gif )

So I don't know why Inks needs to pan headphones based on their frequency response at the drop of a hat deadhorse.gif

My correction curve for my new CIEMs the Mingo CM3

Note the RIDICULOUS bass boost tongue.gif (the result doesn't sound bass-boosted despite the units measuring pretty flat from 500Hz down to 100Hz to begin with, with only a 5dB drop from 100Hz to 20Hz. So objectively speaking the response should sound boosted, but to my ears they don't.)
Edited by Joe Bloggs - 12/9/13 at 12:41am
post #3484 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

So, from your EDIT, you're conceding that you read the chart incorrectly, and that it's NOT +10 dB of boost? And that, by leaving those statements on record, you're NOT making the picture clear? This is my final response to you, as yes, it leads nowhere, as it always does. However, whenever you make posts where you merely look at something perfunctorily and still make provocative statements using words like "ridiculous", you're partaking in irresponsible behavior.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

So, from your EDIT, you're conceding that you read the chart incorrectly, and that it's NOT +10 dB of boost? And that, by leaving those statements on record, you're NOT making the picture clear? This is my final response to you, as yes, it leads nowhere, as it always does. However, whenever you make posts where you merely look at something perfunctorily and still make provocative statements using words like "ridiculous", you're partaking in irresponsible behavior.

Sorry my posts don't please you, but that's how it is, I'm honest. Now you know very well if indeed it had a 10db boost that's what I'll deem ridiculous but it's apparent this iem has other issues I mention IMO. Mistakes happen I'm honest enough to admit it, but still disagree that it's also a mistake to label this iem as decently neutral based on the data shown
post #3485 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

Considering that's raw, that's FAR from neutral. That bass looks ridiculously boosted, the midrange balance looks good [all the way to 3k] but there's too much 4-6k presence and that 10 peak may be problematic to a smaller extent. Definitely not high bandwidth considering the roll-off, but not terrible. 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 

10db boost is simply "ridiculous" IMO, disagree if you'd like but in my experience that kind of boost is not close to decently neutral, in other words, it's exaggerated IMO. 

 

[...]

 

[edit: LOL just noticed the way the graph is presented is really awkard and compressed in terms of db steps. So I take it back, nothing special though, similar to TDK BA200 but lesss balanced as the whole treble past 6k is pretty hot...ie boosted]

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

So, from your EDIT, you're conceding that you read the chart incorrectly, and that it's NOT +10 dB of boost? And that, by leaving those statements on record, you're NOT making the picture clear? This is my final response to you, as yes, it leads nowhere, as it always does. However, whenever you make posts where you merely look at something perfunctorily and still make provocative statements using words like "ridiculous", you're partaking in irresponsible behavior.

Sorry my posts don't please you, but that's how it is, I'm honest. Now you know very well if indeed it had a 10db boost that's what I'll deem ridiculous but it's apparent this iem has other issues I mention IMO. Mistakes happen I'm honest enough to admit it, but still disagree that it's also a mistake to label this iem as decently neutral based on the data shown

 

We already have had one person railroad themselves as an "expert" here through trashing everything under the sun that isn't perfect to them (and subsequently rendering an entire segment of the community a mess of hate) and we aren't going to have another.

post #3486 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Bloggs View Post

Thanks Joe!

Er, open mouth, closed mouth, bite block? (my first impressions were with a bite block) I heard there's a dedicated ear impressions thread, can you link me to it? FWIW these CIEMs are OEMed by Unique Melody if that makes any difference (they do 2nd bend molds? Mingo said they have to ask them for me. I told them to ask, while they are at it, whether my particular pair of ears can have 2nd bend molds made for them--as the first bend molds I got here seem to taper to a rather narrow opening, with little room for acrylic around the sound tube. I'm kinda afraid that if the 2nd bend molds have such a narrow "neck", the tips might break off like icicles with a hard bump redface.gif )

 

You have to find out the manufacturer instructions for the ear impressions, as they compensate different ways depending on their instructions.  So, if UM is OEMing them, you should follow UM instructions.  As far as the canal thickness, I am sure if you ask them, they will go as long as they feel safe doing, and acrylic is pretty hard material.  Of course, if you drop them 5 feet onto concrete, all bets are off, but a drop onto a desk from 8" for example shouldn't harm the shell.

 

One way you can check your ear impressions is to wear them and see how well they seal in various positions.  It is OK to cut off a bit if the tips if you feel comfortable doing so.  

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

I have a question for everybody.

 

What are the bass heavy TOTL ciems? I mean, I am looking for bass heavy but still very high end and quality names.

 

FitEar MH335DW comes to my mind first but ordering it from Eu is, well, quite tricky as you know.

 

Apart from that I remember JH16FP, Heir 8A / Noble 8C. Can anyone add more bass heavy and high end resolution monitors? Maybe new coming Roxanne can be named with its special cable to change the bass.

 

Are you looking for warm, or just a lot of bass in general?

 

The JH16 pro was a bass monster, but from what I know the FP version isn't to the same extent.  The 8.A is, so the 8.C will probably be also.  The EarSonics EM32, which may be quite bass heavy per this.  The Roxanne is probably a good candidate, but again, I haven't heard any JHA stuff other than the old 16.  The Hidition NT-6 pro has a lot of sub-bass, but is on the colder side.  The UM PP6 has an adjustable bass boost as well and can be very bass heavy.  The only Fit Ear I have heard, the one from a different company (Fit-Ear in the US) makes the PS-5, which has ample bass.

post #3487 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post
 

 

 

Are you looking for warm, or just a lot of bass in general?

 

The JH16 pro was a bass monster, but from what I know the FP version isn't to the same extent.  The 8.A is, so the 8.C will probably be also.  The EarSonics EM32, which may be quite bass heavy per this.  The Roxanne is probably a good candidate, but again, I haven't heard any JHA stuff other than the old 16.  The Hidition NT-6 pro has a lot of sub-bass, but is on the colder side.  The UM PP6 has an adjustable bass boost as well and can be very bass heavy.  The only Fit Ear I have heard, the one from a different company (Fit-Ear in the US) makes the PS-5, which has ample bass.

Great help AJ, as usual :happy_face1: They are not for me honestly, a friend of mine who is new to the audiophile world and doesn't want to get attached by creating a head-fi account is asking for a ciem like that.

 

I think relatively warm-ish sound with lots of bass is what he is looking for. For him PP6 is out already, no extra device to be carried in the bag/pocket. I will also suggest him SE3 way ref (Kudos to Peter from Custom Art, who reminded me these ciems).

 

More suggestions are always welcome.

post #3488 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

Great help AJ, as usual :happy_face1: They are not for me honestly, a friend of mine who is new to the audiophile world and doesn't want to get attached by creating a head-fi account is asking for a ciem like that.

 

I think relatively warm-ish sound with lots of bass is what he is looking for. For him PP6 is out already, no extra device to be carried in the bag/pocket. I will also suggest him SE3 way ref (Kudos to Peter from Custom Art, who reminded me these ciems).

 

More suggestions are always welcome.

Ear Sonics EM6, Fitear 334, Future ear MG6 pro, Noble Audio K10.

 

I think EM6 should fit your friends taste as a beginner, because it definitely made me fall in love.

post #3489 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post
 

Ear Sonics EM6, Fitear 334, Future ear MG6 pro, Noble Audio K10.

 

I think EM6 should fit your friends taste as a beginner, because it definitely made me fall in love.

Oh, are those models are really bass heavy? I thought, for example, K10 is quite balanced while 8C is bass heavy.

 

The same goes for EM6 too, isn't it something like SE5way with small differences? So it shouldn't be bass heavy I guess.

 

Btw, how is your fit with EM6, I remember you had problems :frown:

post #3490 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

Oh, are those models are really bass heavy? I thought, for example, K10 is quite balanced while 8C is bass heavy.

 

The same goes for EM6 too, isn't it something like SE5way with small differences? So it shouldn't be bass heavy I guess.

 

Btw, how is your fit with EM6, I remember you had problems :frown:

Really? I thought 8C is more balanced while K10 has more musical factor with more quality bass. Maybe it's the other way round.

 

As far as EM6, yes. it has super deep and punchy bass that and blow your heart. You will feel the bass energy right down to your throat. lol. That's why I said EM6 is SE5 on steriod. 

It has one of the most powerful and dynamic bass I have ever heard from a CIEM. Bass quantity is on par with my old JH16 if not more.

 

Yeah it had bad fit, but it was only a bit tight for the concha area, so it doesn't affect any sound at all, just makes my outer ear sore after a while.

post #3491 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post
 

Really? I thought 8C is more balanced while K10 has more musical factor with more quality bass. Maybe it's the other way round.

 

As far as EM6, yes. it has super deep and punchy bass that and blow your heart. You will feel the bass energy right down to your throat. lol. That's why I said EM6 is SE5 on steriod.

It has one of the most powerful and dynamic bass I have ever heard from a CIEM. Bass quantity is on par with my old JH16 if not more.

 

Yeah it had bad fit, but it was only a bit tight for the concha area, so it doesn't affect any sound at all, just makes my outer ear sore after a while.

I am almost sure it is the way I described mate. I think 8C (which is an updated/improved version of 8A from Good Old Heir days) is a bassy one while K10 is more balanced and neutral sounding. Anyway you can ask Dr Moulton I guess, in Noble Audio thread.

 

As for the EM6, I am also interested in EarSonics, both EM6 and EM32. Do you think for me (already have SE5way) is EM6 necessary or I should put my money on other things because they are relatively similar?

 

I think he might like the EM6, he was telling me: Ok the way you described SE5way is perfect, everything is fine, but I want more bass than that, even if the song is bass shy, I want to hear the booms/emphasis on low range. Maybe EM6 can really satisfy him.

post #3492 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmberOzL View Post
 

I am almost sure it is the way I described mate. I think 8C (which is an updated/improved version of 8A from Good Old Heir days) is a bassy one while K10 is more balanced and neutral sounding. Anyway you can ask Dr Moulton I guess, in Noble Audio thread.

 

As for the EM6, I am also interested in EarSonics, both EM6 and EM32. Do you think for me (already have SE5way) is EM6 necessary or I should put my money on other things because they are relatively similar?

 

I think he might like the EM6, he was telling me: Ok the way you described SE5way is perfect, everything is fine, but I want more bass than that, even if the song is bass shy, I want to hear the booms/emphasis on low range. Maybe EM6 can really satisfy him.

Sounds like me when I first start to search for headphones and CIEMs, I always thought more bass is better. But I don't think this way now even 90% of my music is hip hop. Maybe I am not a diehard basshead.

 

Compared to EM6, SE5 is brighter and has much more linear treble. EM6 is a bit more mid forward with more mid body and density feeling. 

SE5 has deep and powerful bass, EM6 has even more power. On some songs, SE5 can sound a little bit mid forward, EM is even more forward. On some songs, SE5 can sound a bit warm, EM6 is warmer. That's what I mean by steriod ;). everything SE5 does EM6 exaggerates it which isn't the advantage for me because it shifts the presentation out of neutral range, although EM6 is well balanced.

post #3493 of 4815

This is an unusual request for assistance in selecting a custom iem, and I was tempted just to send a pm to Average Joe, but just in case someone else has some degree of discomfort with wiring as it exits and loops around the ear, I'll ask publicly. I don't want to be overly dramatic, but this is nearly a life or death issue for me. As background, I have a rare disease known as Trigeminal Neuralgia (TN). It is pretty widely acknowledged to be the most painful condition known, with excruciating electric shocks and sharp stabs traveling along various nerves in the forehead and face, as well as other unpleasantries. If you google its informal name, "the suicide disease," TN is what will come up. Those like me who are further unlucky have type 2 TN which is defined by adding to the pain already described a constant, unrelenting nerve pain that is "only" as intense as a migraine. 

 

For the last 4 1/2 years, listening to music has kept me sane. Giving the mind something else to concentrate on beside the pain signals constantly going off is a survival issue. And of course the "activity" needs to be passive. I can and do listen to music out loud, but I can't always hog the media room and perhaps more importantly, I need music to help me get to sleep. And thus my current problem. Different people have different "triggers" that can set off an attack of the sharper intermittent pain. Until recently, the area around my ears has not been a trigger zone and I've been able to use my UM3X for hours of comfortable listeneing. Unfortunately, now the area on the scalp under the protruding ear, especially at the top, has become sensitive. The area where the plastic covers the stock cord on the Westones is making them set off attacks and worsening the constant pain I experience.

 

So, at last, after all the self-indulgence, my questions: As you have evaluated CIEMs, have you noted any that are flush in the ear (or even recessed a bit) more than others? Can you remember any that have a more comfortable, softer or more pliable cord than others (particularly perhaps ones where the connection to the monitor is recessed so that it is only cord emerging)? Is there a particular company where you have a feeling they would work with me on further customizing their custom to accommodate my issues?

 

Not to be too greedy, but it would also be nice to have a choice with my preferred sound signature, which I think I can best describe by improving on what I like about the Westone UM3X. I like the fullness of the bass, but believe the Westone roll off a little too early, leaving that rumble the tiniest bit wanting. I guess a tad quicker in the bass wouldn't hurt, but not at expense of quantity, which is just right for me. I like the forward nature of the mids, and their warm, smooth nature. Especially fond of the fact that the midrange sounds dead even across its spectrum to my ears. Like the bass, I would sacrifice an iota of warmth and thickness of note for more transparency and instrument separation. But just an iota. In terms of treble, I am completely in agreement with ljokerl about liking the detail and non-fatiguing nature, but would like perhaps a tad more sparkle; not, however, at the expense of the ability to listen for long sessions. I'm not bothered, as some are, by the intimacy of the soundstage.

 

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you all may have.

post #3494 of 4815
@Mayordean: I sympathize with your condition and admire your resilience. I find silicone CIEMs to be more comfortable. You may contact Spiral Ears but I feel that Piotrus at custom art is maybe more open to "special orders" whether it be in terms of shape or tuning.

@Tupac and Amber. I have not tried the EM6 but the S-EM6 really did not feel so bassy. Among bassy iems I know are the Fitear 335, the IE800, the Vision Ears Stage 4, the Fitear TG334. The 1plus2 is not bassy to my ears but the dynamic drivers provides a very punchy bass.
post #3495 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post

@Tupac and Amber. I have not tried the EM6 but the S-EM6 really did not feel so bassy. Among bassy iems I know are the Fitear 335, the IE800, the Vision Ears Stage 4, the Fitear TG334. The 1plus2 is not bassy to my ears but the dynamic drivers provides a very punchy bass.

I don't feel 1+2 bassy at all either, so my EM6 is definitely bassy to me, especially bass depth, it goes way down. I can feel it punches into my stomach.


Edited by tupac0306 - 12/9/13 at 8:52am
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