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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 219

post #3271 of 3831

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronLung View Post

I'm sorry, but I mixed up model "AM4and "AM6." All what I said earlier about the "AM6was about the "AM4", the sixth model has a dark sound with a bloated midbassinsufficient midswith sibilance, I do not like these headphones!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mython View Post

 

Pardon me for asking, but what source were you using to listen to the AM6?

 

Your description sounds to me as though the output stage of your source may have been struggling to control them sufficiently (my UM Miracles sounded awful from a Cowon J3 but fantastic from a DX100, and I mean massively different).

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by IronLung View Post


It was AK100 with mod and iPhone 5.

 

 

Hmmm... further to my earlier remark, by sheer coincidence I just stumbled across this discussion, in the DX50 thread (http://www.head-fi.org/t/661167/dx50-a-new-smaller-dap-coming-from-ibasso-specifications-page-1/1320#post_9645407):

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post



Nope I had an RWA AK100 and sold it because I didn't like the sound. I preferred the Studio to it. I won't risk modding my AK120. I'm very happy with it as is and don't want to take the risk. I was not happy with the  RWA AK100 so I don't know if I'd honestly like the RWA AK120 or RWA AK120S either. Then factoring in I void my warranty and have to use an amp instead of having a choice just doesn't appeal to me. I'm glad if it works for others though. biggrin.gif I also have a Tera Player here that I'm borrowing. It's a nice unit. Still not better than the AK120. wink_face.gif
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnakChan View Post


These days though it seems the sound of a DAP isn't solely based on the h/w (DAC, OpAmp, mods, etc.) but also by the firmware. Have you had a chance to listen to the RWAK100 with its newer firmware (may it be iRiver's 2.01 or Listrid's)?

It does concern me somewhat how much firmware plays a part in sound signatures - kinda makes impressions even more complicated.

Edit: & I didn't even touch the SDCard size vs sound impact topic :-P!!

 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

 

Nope I updated it one time when I owned it. Didn't notice any changes in sound at that time. Still sounded rather harsh in the highs for me and the bass was bloated. With usage it did calm down a little but still was muddy and harsh for me. I was just glad to sell it off in the end. Was not very happy coming from the DX100 at that point :(.

 

Regarding the SD Cards well that's just what I hear. I'm not gonna purposely inconvenience myself if I didn't hear an appreciable difference. That really makes me wonder though what that one guys posted earlier on (the read speeds of the 32 GB cards being faster than the 64 GB cards?). Whatever it is I didn't like what I heard when comparing them. Now if I just wanted convenience and didn't mind sacrificing a bit of sound quality then I'd still have the 64 GB cards.

 

I agree it's strange how firmwares impact sound and how much it can impact sound. But I've been accustomed to this since the Studio V then the DX100 :P. Wasn't really expecting the AK120 to change in sound though as I didn't notice the RWA unit do this. But I'm guessing on the newer firmwares it does indeed change the sound?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jamato8 View Post

Odd, I don't get that sound with the AK100 though it was my modification bypassing the 22ohm resistors. Sounds great with the JH13 pro and the RE600. 

 

 

 

(N.B.: Please note that emphasis and enlargement of text was done by me, not the original authors)

 

 

@ Iron Lung:

 

Lee's AK100 was a Red Wine modded one. I don't know what variant yours is. However, your description is extraordinarily similar to the one offered by Lee. Therefore, I speculate that the AM6 you heard may not have had good synergy with your source (even the iPhone 5).

 

The more complex multi-BA driver CIEMs can potentially present an unusually reactive load to an output stage. It seems congruent with this fact that it was the most complex of the AM line-up that you felt sounded the worst.

 

Let me reassure you that I have no vested interest in defending the AM line-up. I'm speaking about this from a relatively neutral standpoint. From personal experience, the UM Miracle taught me an important lesson about how poor a multi-BA CIEM (6 drivers in the case of the Miracle) can sound if not driven by a very capable output stage that has good synergy with the CIEM. When driving my Miracles with my old Cowon J3, the bass was inadequate, vague and muddy, the mids lacked definition, and whilst I wouldn't describe the treble as 'harsh', it was definitely splashy, erratic, and poorly-defined. The bass was so poor that I was ready to downgrade to the Merlin, and then... then, I bought a DX100 and wow! What a spectacular difference in the sound of the Miracles. It's not really worth bothering, but if you care to search Head-fi, you'll see I did discuss exactly this, at the time, so I'm not making any of this up to suit our discussion here wink.gif

 

 

Incidentally, Lee's remarks about his (ex) RWAK100 are particularly interesting because the RWA mod lowers the output impedance of the AK100 (22 ohms as standard, or thereabouts, if memory serves me correctly), so one would expect the RWAK100 not to perform so poorly, in the manner he describes (as you may be aware, one of the biggest hurdles in driving multi-BA CIEMs is having too high an output impedance in the output stage).

 

.


Edited by Mython - 7/25/13 at 12:12pm
post #3272 of 3831
Thread Starter 

@ Mython: Sources can be troublesome for many CIEMs, even some that may not seem too complex (triple driver).  

 

Also, I have posted a portion of my Custom Art Music One review here.

post #3273 of 3831
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

@ Mython: Sources can be troublesome for many CIEMs, even some that may not seem too complex (triple driver).  

 

Also, I have posted a portion of my Custom Art Music One review here.

 

 

I absolutely agree - it wasn't my intention to imply that only the more complex CIEM designs are awkward to drive, just that they often tend to be awkward to drive. Of course there are some less-complex designs which throw up challenges of their own, too.

 

My fundamental point was that the output stage with which Iron Lung was driving the AM6 might have been more responsible (due to poor synergy) for the poor perceived audio performance than the AM6 itself.

post #3274 of 3831
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

I absolutely agree - it wasn't my intention to imply that only the more complex CIEM designs are awkward to drive, just that they often tend to be awkward to drive. Of course there are some less-complex designs which throw up challenges of their own, too.

 

My fundamental point was that the output stage with which Iron Lung was driving the AM6 might have been more responsible (due to poor synergy) for the poor perceived audio performance than the AM6 itself.

 

I am glad we agree and do appreciate the time you took to piece that all together.  I was impressed with the AM4 pro and therefore would think the AM6 would perform well, but you never know.  The comment from IronLung made me wonder if the tuning is similar to the EM6 (which I haven't heard yet).  I am not saying this happened here, but sometimes sound signature preferences can alter perception quite drastically.

post #3275 of 3831

Well it seems I can't win :)

 

Been using my minerva's at work and all's well, except for one thing.  Isolation, too much of it.  When I have my music on I can't hear anything and that includes people talking to me.  Whilst that's my idea of bliss I've had a couple of near heart attacks.  The reason being is I am blind on my right side.   So I'll be looking at my screen with music playing glance up and there's someone there trying to get my attention!  After the third time yesterday I began to get slightly irritated (more with myself to be fair).  In the past it wouldn't have been a problem as in my old position at work I could see people coming even when looking at the screen.  Now in my new (worse) position it's a lot more of a problem.  There's also the slightly strange feeling of claustrophobia as all outside senses are blocked off and you are just left with the music.  The bugger of it is I can either have 3-4 people in the space of an hour come talk to me or have no one for the space of a morning.  I also find the silicone slightly tiring on the ears wearing all day (with breaks for lunch and coffee).

 

Cheers

post #3276 of 3831
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post

Well it seems I can't win :)

 

Been using my minerva's at work and all's well, except for one thing.  Isolation, too much of it.  When I have my music on I can't hear anything and that includes people talking to me.  Whilst that's my idea of bliss I've had a couple of near heart attacks.  The reason being is I am blind on my right side.   So I'll be looking at my screen with music playing glance up and there's someone there trying to get my attention!  After the third time yesterday I began to get slightly irritated (more with myself to be fair).  In the past it wouldn't have been a problem as in my old position at work I could see people coming even when looking at the screen.  Now in my new (worse) position it's a lot more of a problem.  There's also the slightly strange feeling of claustrophobia as all outside senses are blocked off and you are just left with the music.  The bugger of it is I can either have 3-4 people in the space of an hour come talk to me or have no one for the space of a morning.  I also find the silicone slightly tiring on the ears wearing all day (with breaks for lunch and coffee).

 

Cheers


Probably you already know about them of course but, I just want to be a helpful, maybe ciems with ambient port would give you the solution you want. They provide around 20 db isolation instead of 26 like average acrylic shell. So you can still be aware of your environment.

 

As for me, that's good news that isolation is that good, cuz I am buying SE5way, Grzegorz confirmed that my ears are large enough. Because I need that isolation.

post #3277 of 3831

Hi

 

The thing is though, these are the half shell type. I posted about them a page or two back (half a shell).  So the rating is 22-24 db anyway :) 

 

Good luck with yours.

 

PS I also think this ongoing, neverending sodding hayfever has something to do with my ears being more sensitive than normal.  Can't believe I'm actually looking forward more to autumn and some damn relief from this.

post #3278 of 3831
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post

Hi

 

The thing is though, these are the half shell type. I posted about them a page or two back (half a shell).  So the rating is 22-24 db anyway :) 

 

Good luck with yours.

 

PS I also think this ongoing, neverending sodding hayfever has something to do with my ears being more sensitive than normal.  Can't believe I'm actually looking forward more to autumn and some damn relief from this.


You never have a good experience with ciems, maybe try out some on ear or over ear headphones?

post #3279 of 3831
Quote:
 average_joe View Post

According our Ambient-Acoustic discussion: I will try to make a poor translation from official web site, my English is poor so don't bite me.

My feelings after I've listened to the samples are 98%  the same as described.

Quote:

model: AM3-ReferenceEdition:

A distinctive feature of the individual monitors AM3-ReferenceEdition is that in this model there is no embellishment in the sound. Ambient Acoustics Lab created this model as the maximum linear over the entire frequency range! There is no: "hiss" and the music pumping bass. This is achieved by the use of this model, three drivers in each ear! Channel separation is realized as an electric and acoustic crossover. This allowed a more accurate balance and smooth response to the requirements of the most sophisticated listener. The model will be of interest primarily to musicians, sound engineers, audiophiles who need to monitor, accurate sound!

Quote:
model: AM4-MusicEdition:
AM4-MusicEdition has a pronounced musical sound with deep bass dominance in the overall picture. The basic idea of ​​the design of this model was to create a sense of "physicality" and "bulk" when listening to music with rich bass components. However, AM4-MusicEdition no "smearing" and "boominess" bass! This is achieved by the fact that the elevation is only in the area of ​​the lower and infra bass. Average bass is not lubricates and does not cover voice and instrument ranges, and thanks to a well-balanced work of two emitters, medium and high frequency ranges that bring the necessary clarity and lightness in the overall sound picture that so appreciated by lovers of quality music. Airiness of monitors is achieved by compliance in the resulting frequency response of the resonant phenomena of ears and ear canals in human perception of sound in free field. The sound will be of considerable interest primarily bass guitarists, drummers and audiophiles.
Quote:
model: AM6-HiRez
Individual monitors AM6-HiRez (high resolution) - this is the top model laboratory Ambient Acoustics! These individual headphones implemented all our years of experience designing means of individual monitoring. This model has six emitters that reproduce the entire audible range of the human ear infra component to ultra high! Because of this, individual monitors give the music scene a much wider and deeper than any of the other monitors in the lab! Will appreciate this model audiophiles and BASSHEADS, unnecessarily audio feed AM6-HiRez can be described as a musical, with the most severe "corporal" presence effect!

On my taste AM3 and AM4 were the best samples.


Edited by IronLung - 8/1/13 at 4:49am
post #3280 of 3831

Thankyou for the translation; much appreciated, IronLung!   beerchug.gif

post #3281 of 3831

@A_J

 

I don't quite understand the sound of SE-5. On the one hand, you say they're never bright and a little like LCD-2. On the other hand, you mentioned that it doesn't have a sound signature.

 

I had HD 600, HD 650 (= close to LCD-2??), UE 900, K 701, DT 880, ATH M50. They all have sound signatures.

 

UE 900 has veil, too small & flat soundstage.

HD 600 sounded very nice: non-fatiguing, but soundstage width was missing

HD 650 sounded like it wasnt able to output high frequency, a little bass heavy.

K 701 too much high-mid frequency, wide soundstage without depth and hole in the middle of soundstage.

ATH M50 treble = harsh, recessed mids, punchy

DT 880 = sharp S, lots of treble, mids recessed

IERM = as you stated: unforgiving when playing poor recordings, flat response

 

(I have a low impendance-amp and a CD Player)

 

So, if the HD 650 didnt have enough treble, will the SE-5 disappoint me?

 

Andreas

post #3282 of 3831
The part about about the se5 not having a sound signature is total garbage. It's a stage monitor tuning with boosted upper mids and dipped highs and a boosted bass. This makes perfect sense as Gregorz, the man behind SpiralEars, came from ACS, which makes stage monitors.Having heard the se5 for a month, I really wonder about the strange descriptions of it.

I'll see if I can post a frquency response chart for it later that will illustrate this perfectly.

If you don't like dark, then maybe this isn't for you.
post #3283 of 3831

Okay, here's the frequency response chart. As always, one's ears come first. Good measurements, like this one, help us to describe what we are hearing.

 

 

Stage monitors tend to have a lift in the vocal range and a drop in the sibilant range. That double lift you see in the vocal range is common as well.

 

It's a stage monitor sound, that's it's character. None of this "magical" garbage. If you like stage monitors and the dark sound they have, then look at it if you're in the EU and want to spend a lot.  If not, then look elsewhere.

post #3284 of 3831
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kunlun View Post

Okay, here's the frequency response chart. As always, one's ears come first. Good measurements, like this one, help us to describe what we are hearing.




Stage monitors tend to have a lift in the vocal range and a drop in the sibilant range. That double lift you see in the vocal range is common as well.

It's a stage monitor sound, that's it's character. None of this "magical" garbage. If you like stage monitors and the dark sound they have, then look at it if you're in the EU and want to spend a lot.  If not, then look elsewhere.

I like that double peak. biggrin.gif

Are those left and right channel measurements??
post #3285 of 3831

Yup.

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