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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 19

post #271 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by i2ehan View Post

Indeed, it's the EX1000 I speak of. While I still stand behind my recommendation, based on what little experience I have, when compared to that of someone such as yourself, I always appreciate and value your insight my friend. In truth, there's really no "right" answer per se. In your own words, it depends on what you want to spend and how close you want to get to what you are looking for, to which I couldn't agree more. smile.gif

 

P.S. Can't wait to read your JH16 impressions my friend! wink.gif


It really depends on the price range IMO.  The EX-1000 is open and has wind noise when outside making it more like a headphone.  It will be great for some, but has pretty much the opposite sound signature of the IE8, so if someone likes the IE8 there is a good chance IMO they won't prefer the EX-1000.  Of course, I could be way off and Poetik could buy one of the lower end Sony's and try the sound signature (EX-600?) and go from there.  Also, I didn't think the EX-1000 was as detailed as the entry level custom IEMs I own, hence my recommendation.  I guess when Poetik chimes in we will know more!

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tronz View Post

* Reads first page * ... Ummm, I'm speechless. Someone help me. blink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by i2ehan View Post

Ay! get in the back o' the line, you! biggrin.gif


Thank you both!

post #272 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

The EX-1000 is open and has wind noise when outside making it more like a headphone.  It will be great for some, but has pretty much the opposite sound signature of the IE8, so if someone likes the IE8 there is a good chance IMO they won't prefer the EX-1000.


Lol, we really do hear things differently, don't we? Out of the universals I've heard, the EX1000 are the most logical upgrade for IE8 lovers in my book, with better bass balance/texture and improved treble, while at the same time retaining much of the IE8's natural timbre, smoothness and wonderful soundstage.

post #273 of 4815
Thread Starter 

Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

Lol, we really do hear things differently, don't we? Out of the universals I've heard, the EX1000 are the most logical upgrade for IE8 lovers in my book, with better bass balance/texture and improved treble, while at the same time retaining much of the IE8's natural timbre, smoothness and wonderful soundstage.


Is it that we hear things differently, or recommend differently?  After the SM3, which is IMO on one side of the sound signature spectrum, I base a good part of my recommendations on sound signatures, not necessarily technical ability.  I do agree that the EX-1000 is superior to the IE8 technically in bass quality with natural timbre and smoothness and great soundstage width, but I don't think the EX-1000 has the sub-bass Poetik is looking for due to his description and how I interpret the EX-1000, which while not lacking sub-bass doesn't have any boost and is a little on the thinner side, especially when one considers that Poetik is coming from the IE8.  The mids and upper end do fit as I think the EX-1000 has excellent clarity and good air.

 

 

Quote:
I guess what I'm looking for is something with a sub bass boost, not too much midbass boost, clear mids, and highs that sparkle but aren't quite sibilant.

 

 

So, from my perspective, after hearing some of the higher end custom IEMs I do think they offer a much closer presentation to the above description than the EX-1000.  I have also communicated in length with 3 members that have owned/heard the EX-1000 and none disagree with my take.  How do you hear the EX-1000 from a sound signature perspective?

 

 


Edited by average_joe - 7/20/11 at 7:15am
post #274 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Is it that we hear things differently, or recommend differently?  After the SM3, which is IMO on one side of the sound signature spectrum, I base a good part of my recommendations on sound signatures, not necessarily technical ability.  I do agree that the EX-1000 is superior to the IE8 technically in bass quality with natural timbre and smoothness and great soundstage width, but I don't think the EX-1000 has the sub-bass Poetik is looking for...

 

Erm, I wasn't referring to Poetik's requirements and your recommendation, but to the post I quoted:

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

The EX-1000 is open and has wind noise when outside making it more like a headphone.  It will be great for some, but has pretty much the opposite sound signature of the IE8, so if someone likes the IE8 there is a good chance IMO they won't prefer the EX-1000.

 

I do not hear them as opposites at all, to my ears the IE8 have more in common with the EX1000 than with any of my BAs or MAs: excellent soundstage and ambience, natural timbre with instruments, smoothness, lack of aggression. It's just their frequency response from a flat source that's different, still if you attenuate the Senn's upper bass and boost the treble a bit you can get quite close to the Sony's sound signature. Since many IE8 lovers (myself included) would prefer a better bass balance anyway, I would expect them to like the EX1000 just like I do.

 

So, bottom line, I don't doubt that some of the higher end customs would fit Poetik's sub-bass requirements better than the EX1000 (even though I think the Sonys have much better sub-bass than the IE8). I only doubt your prediction that IE8 lovers won't prefer the EX1000, in fact I would pretty much predict the opposite.

post #275 of 4815

Well, I think the EX-1000 would be better than the IE8 simply because the Senn is very veiled sounding to my ears (as good as it is), and the EX-1000 isn't (I haven't heard it, but I have the EX-600 and my understanding is that they are very close in sound).

 

Now, if Poetik would be willing to invest in something like the Zo subwoofer to go along with the Ex-1000, well then in my opinion that sound would surpass the IE8 in bass quantity, quality, clarity and transparency. Oh, with no veil over the music.

post #276 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

 

Erm, I wasn't referring to Poetik's requirements and your recommendation, but to the post I quoted:

 

 

I do not hear them as opposites at all, to my ears the IE8 have more in common with the EX1000 than with any of my BAs or MAs: excellent soundstage and ambience, natural timbre with instruments, smoothness, lack of aggression. It's just their frequency response from a flat source that's different, still if you attenuate the Senn's upper bass and boost the treble a bit you can get quite close to the Sony's sound signature. Since many IE8 lovers (myself included) would prefer a better bass balance anyway, I would expect them to like the EX1000 just like I do.

 

So, bottom line, I don't doubt that some of the higher end customs would fit Poetik's sub-bass requirements better than the EX1000 (even though I think the Sonys have much better sub-bass than the IE8). I only doubt your prediction that IE8 lovers won't prefer the EX1000, in fact I would pretty much predict the opposite.


Frequency response can be a powerful thing to liking something IMO.  I don't disagree with what you are saying about the IE8 vs. the EX1000 except one has a mid-bass hump and the other is on the leaner side.  I do think the EX-1000 does better in deep bass than the IE8 from the perspective than the IE8 has a rounded hump on both sides, meaning the deep bass is rolled off in comparison with the mid-bass.  As far as EQ, I don't make any recommendations for someone buying something based on having to apply EQ, just my style.  I have only used EQ on one IEM, the EP-10 Plus since it is too warm and veiled without it, but does have some strengths.

 

I would guess that some IE8 owners will like the EX1000 and some won't as you are recommending based on presentation and I on frequency response.  I think I need to find the time to read what you have posted about the EX-1000.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ericp10 View Post

Well, I think the EX-1000 would be better than the IE8 simply because the Senn is very veiled sounding to my ears (as good as it is), and the EX-1000 isn't (I haven't heard it, but I have the EX-600 and my understanding is that they are very close in sound).

 

Now, if Poetik would be willing to invest in something like the Zo subwoofer to go along with the Ex-1000, well then in my opinion that sound would surpass the IE8 in bass quantity, quality, clarity and transparency. Oh, with no veil over the music.


That combo sounds like it could be an interesting one...

 


Edited by average_joe - 7/20/11 at 9:48am
post #277 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post



That combo sounds like it could be an interesting one...

 


The Zo and EX1000 are literally a match made in audio heaven! Coupled with the Zo, the EX1000's sub-bass quite obviously surpasses the IE8's, even the Atrio's and FX700 for that matter, all three of which offer very powerful lows already. On the other hand, coupling the Zo with any of the aforementioned 3 bass monsters would be overkill IMO, and I doubt as to whether the mids and treble would retain their true nature, which isn't at all a problem with the Zo and EX1000 combo, since the Sony's aren't nearly as bass-heavy, to begin with, as the 3 aforementioned, but are just right to these ears. biggrin.gif
post #278 of 4815
Hi average-joe,

Thanks for the very informative reviews of both universals and custom iem's.

I am on the lookout for a (custom) iem with a flat frequency response from top to bottom and read your review of the Fabs earphones. They seem to fit what I am looking for. However I would like you to help me a little by comparing them with the SM3 (and eQ-7) in terms of frequency response. (I have both these universals.)

It is especially the frequency response in the mids I found unexpected disappointment with the SM3. I am not talking about the quality of the drivers in the SM3 (which is very good), but the boost (maybe +6dB) around 300Hz & the dip (maybe -8dB) around 3kHz. This is what makes the SM3 sound dark I now understand. It also has a lower output in the lower treble (about -4dB), but if that was the only "fault" I wouldn't complain.

All in all - if I equalize the SM3 as observed it sounds very good, but I would prefer that a universal iem at this price level to have a less flawed response. I simply can't get myself to use it without EQ. The eQ-7 on the other hand lacks bass (maybe -9dB) and the lower treble has a little boost (about +3dB), but the mids are quite flat, and thus the eQ-7 is equally quite good without EQ'ing.

So - the above taken into account - how do you think the Fabs are in comparison to the SM3 and eQ-7 in terms of frequency response?
post #279 of 4815

could you give me a comparison between reshelled TF10 and the ex1000?

post #280 of 4815
Thread Starter 

     Quote:

Originally Posted by LarsHP View Post

Hi average-joe,

Thanks for the very informative reviews of both universals and custom iem's.

I am on the lookout for a (custom) iem with a flat frequency response from top to bottom and read your review of the Fabs earphones. They seem to fit what I am looking for. However I would like you to help me a little by comparing them with the SM3 (and eQ-7) in terms of frequency response. (I have both these universals.)

It is especially the frequency response in the mids I found unexpected disappointment with the SM3. I am not talking about the quality of the drivers in the SM3 (which is very good), but the boost (maybe +6dB) around 300Hz & the dip (maybe -8dB) around 3kHz. This is what makes the SM3 sound dark I now understand. It also has a lower output in the lower treble (about -4dB), but if that was the only "fault" I wouldn't complain.

All in all - if I equalize the SM3 as observed it sounds very good, but I would prefer that a universal iem at this price level to have a less flawed response. I simply can't get myself to use it without EQ. The eQ-7 on the other hand lacks bass (maybe -9dB) and the lower treble has a little boost (about +3dB), but the mids are quite flat, and thus the eQ-7 is equally quite good without EQ'ing.

So - the above taken into account - how do you think the Fabs are in comparison to the SM3 and eQ-7 in terms of frequency response?

 

Hi Lars, thank you for reading!


I would say the Fabs are much closer to the eQ-7 than the SM3 in frequency response, and even the SA-12 is pretty close; you may want to read my comparison of the Fabs and SA-12 in the SA-12 review.  My thoughs on the eQ-7 are from my memory and notes, inlcuding this comparison I did of the eQ-7 with the SM3.  Technically I would rate the Fabs above both the eQ-7 and the SM3, but a few things to think about with the Fabs are the deep bass reverb is closer to the eQ-7 than the SM3 and the the Fabs are a half shell and don’t offer isolation that is on par with a full shelled custom IEM or even the SM3 with triple flange tips.

 

Another possible suggestion is the Mi-3 which takes the SM3 presentation, moves it in front of you and adds clarity and treble at the expense of bass weight, depth, and enhancement.  The biggest issue I have with the Mi-3 is the bass driver needs a lot of power to get going, but it does have a presentation that is on the richer and thicker side that is very liquid similar to the SM3, however with a flatter response.  You may feel the need to EQ the bass however.
 

And if you want to take another step up the ladder to one of the top rungs, the SA-43 is an option.  With the bass and preence switches off they are very neutral and you can add more bass if you want and/or move the vocals forward.  Technically the SA-43 is a good step up from the Fabs and Mi-3 and is extremely capable and scales well. You can get them without the switches if you wanted.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Majin View Post

could you give me a comparison between reshelled TF10 and the ex1000?

 


I did not compare the TF10 with the EX-1000 since I had limited time with the EX-1000 so take this with a grain of salt.  But, deducing from how the EX-1000 compared with others and knowing how the TF10 reshell compares with the same custom IEMs, I would say the EX-1000 is smoother, has less bass weight, a good deal less warmth and thinner note (faster decay) and a larger soundstage while the TF10 mids are recessed in comparison and the detail level of the EX-1000 is higher than the TF10.  Two things I noticed about the EX-1000 were that the soundstage is presented higher than anything else I had, as if I was sitting below the performance vs. on the same level and teh imaging in the middle of the soundstage wasn't as well defined as at the edges. 

post #281 of 4815

Nice averagejoe, I have the EX1000 again and I got the same impressions from it, though I still need to wait for burn-in or getting used to its sound presentation. Now I'm eager to wait for your comparison of JH16 with the rest of your phones (iems or not)

post #282 of 4815

I think average_joe might be feeling a little bit pressured that he's deciding the destiny of several people's first custom IEM purchase, afterall he is the only person I know of that seems to collect custom IEM's.

 

In the end, the final purchase choice is up to us.

 

One thing I really like is that he goes after the "rare" companies, and doesn't just pick the usual suspects, he seems to have a found a couple gems unknown to the western world like the Rooth LS8, Thousand Sound TS842, etc.

post #283 of 4815
That's cool.I learned 'Patience' associated with the word HiFi Audio and you will be rewarded. ;-)
post #284 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingice10 View Post

Nice averagejoe, I have the EX1000 again and I got the same impressions from it, though I still need to wait for burn-in or getting used to its sound presentation. Now I'm eager to wait for your comparison of JH16 with the rest of your phones (iems or not)


Good to know we hear it similarly.  And I will have my first comparison with the JH16 (aside from what I already posted in this thread) in my upcoming SA-43 review.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kiteki View Post

I think average_joe might be feeling a little bit pressured that he's deciding the destiny of several people's first custom IEM purchase, afterall he is the only person I know of that seems to collect custom IEM's.

 

In the end, the final purchase choice is up to us.

 

One thing I really like is that he goes after the "rare" companies, and doesn't just pick the usual suspects, he seems to have a found a couple gems unknown to the western world like the Rooth LS8, Thousand Sound TS842, etc.


I don't feel pressured but do take my time with my reviews for many reasons including trying to get it right.  As long as I can describe the technical performance and sound signature accurately to give an overall feel of the sound recreation I am confident in my reviews.  I have put together a table ranking various performance aspects of all my custom IEMs, headphones, and universals I have recently borrowed which helps me remember how things stack up against each other.  I still have a lot of tweaking to do before I feel it will be ready to publish.  Plus lately I haven't had much time to write reviews and am working on two reviews simultaneously, the SA-43 and a custom IEM cable thread.  I try to eliminate any personal preference from the equation and figure out what I think will sound the best to the person asking the question.  There is always a chance someone doesn't hear something the same way I do, which has happened with the SM3 for example, but as you said, people should do their due diligence.  

 

Not that the JH16 and ES5 are not great, but I am sure there are others yet to be popular on head-fi and the LS8, TS842, SA-43, SE 5-way, DRM 4X and others have some great potential to do so.  I am looking forward to the wx i9pro 14mm single dynamic...

post #285 of 4815
Thread Starter 

I just started a custom IEM cable thread here.

 

And still working on the SA-43 review...I am loving that thing!

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