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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 172

post #2566 of 4037
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mimouille View Post


And one very naive question: did you initially think them great based on listening, and then you measurements lead you to think that they are not so great ?

Yes and no. I thought the bass great (specifically the thickness), mids very good and even and highs bi-shelved (reduced, but not rolled off) from the get go, even before the refit. The note thickness thing and sounstaging hit me later. No, I didn't measure their frequency response. I did equalize them later. Something similar to inverse RIAA de-emphasis curve makes them near linear (except subbass and extreme highs) - so they're quite easy to eq.

 

They do sound like BAs except in the bass.

 

From the get go I didn't have TWFK for comparison or RE-400, only RE-272 and that was apple/oranges, that being reduced bass and thinnish note presentation all around with some high midrange dips.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sopp View Post

 

Sorry, not trying to offend.

 

Since you mention buyer's bias, I am thinking about the other situation - it's not my cup of tea so it has to be bad (not as good as my favorite).


I specifically said they're not bad at all, just not neutral in either frequency response or note thickness. Definitely not what I expected after reading the reviews. I would definitely recommend this kind of sound at this quality for a die hard basshead (Yamaha EPH-100-class) looking for a CIEM, just not exactly at this price point - perhaps at half price at most. (like $600)

Each part of them taken alone is excellent technically (except the shelved highs), but the sum is nowhere near as nice. They're real picky about sources too - need 0 Ohm output impedance or get yet darker.

 

Driven by Leckerton, it gets neutral in FR sense and reasonably close to neutral altogether with this simple eq. It even then has very similar efficiency to RE-400.

 

That can't fix the piercing at times BA-style tone in low highs though, nor does it make note weight more even. The soundstaging is sometimes off still. One thing I have to give it: the bass, mids and extreme highs are superbly competent, speed and power immense.

The highs (4-8kHz) destroy it for me though - the result is residual shout and noticeable roughness. (It's somewhat less audible unequalized - but their balance is too atrocious - sometimes it gives the appearance of extra crispness or sharpening, but always sounds wrong.)

The roughness has a "quantized" digital crunchy feel to it - but it's 100% analog. (Yes, I've checked with a mixing console graphic eq to be extra sure.)

 

There's some slight but noticeable channel imbalance as well, on the order of 2 dB in places. I'd expect better matching in that expensive product.

 

The problem is that universals have come a long, long way with such as Fischer Audio DBA-02, Brainwavz B2, DBA-02 mkII, Rockit R-50, VSonic GR01 (all TWFK) and Hifiman RE-400 (sole superb dynamic driver). Each of these is around $100 and provides sound worth at least 3 times that and that's probably an understatement.

SE-5 is plain just not worth the money even for a CIEM with high other production values. It's not even diminished returns, it's a cliff. As you well know, it's the second most expensive CIEM out there, only UE PRM is more expensive and that comes with much more personalization.

 

--

Bah, having RE-400 for comparison makes sound of TWFK (Brainwavz B2) slightly and SE-5 notably rough, bit ringy and oversharpened. I bet comparing vs RE-272 didn't show this that well because that IEM has some shout of its own. Not to mention soundstaging is not as good. (Again TWFK is only slightly behind, while SE-5 is more than that.)

 

RE-400 yield only extremely slightly in bass - they're tiny bit drier (shorter decay) and very slightly less tactile than SE-5 there, which I suspect is due to custom fit - SE-5 have more occlusion effect. TWFK is actually worse than them too but in a different, worse way - it has some distortion and its bass is almost entirely non-tactile.


Edited by AstralStorm - 2/27/13 at 2:21pm
post #2567 of 4037

Can you seriously compare the Rockit R-50 to a high end CIEM?  My CT-500 is so much better than my R-50 in every single way it boggles my mind someone would champion it over a high end custom.  The R-50's sole advantage is price.

 

I've read every message in this normally useful and informative thread but the current trend is ridiculous.

post #2568 of 4037

AstralStorm is being very clear about why he feels the way he does. You don't have to agree with his conclusions, but there's nothing wrong with him stating his opinion - even if it rubs you the wrong way or goes against the status quo. 

 

I remember back in the day when I didn't care for the Audio Technica W5000 (which at the time was generally going for $600 or more with few discounts or used sets available). People thought I was nuts for preferring other, cheaper headphones. Some people probably still do. And that's OK. Same goes for various Ultrasone Edition models, or beyer T1 which a lot of people dislike (but I enjoy), or even HD800 which is a very love/hate thing. 

post #2569 of 4037
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

 

 

 

 

wow. we must hear totally different things or we have got very different SE5s (which I believe is the case). Your se 5 sounds like my 3 way pro to a very large extent (almost identical from the EQ graph...weird) which does sound small with extreme rolled off highs, very forward mids and bloated bass to my ears. I thought it was defective and sent it back to Grzegorz since spiral website says 3 way pro sounds like a brighter/thinner 5 way, which is no where the case for me, but he replied that there is almost nothing wrong with the 3 way pro after the measurement. So probably every batch of spiral CIEMs have difference in sound? That looks like a very heavy EQ. For my SE5, I will just have to add a bit more airness/brightness/space (whatever it is) at about ~10k Hz to make it sounds very "neutral" to my ears. In fact, I will probably even boost (~1-2 db) around somewhere at 2-4k Hz for the mids instead of cutting. I would never do anything to the bass and upper treble of 5 way. And what's the Q value for your each EQ band? This doesn't look accurate to me since the EQ band frequency is fixed, this will never leads to any flat response, heavily EQing will distort its original sound too much.

 

To me 5 way sounds the most neutral in all my CIEMs (of course I am not like joe having tons of CIEMs). If people define neutral with brightness, NT6 might sounds more neutral than SE5 instantly. However I find NT6 is a bit too forward for its upper vocal/upper mids sometimes and there is definitely roll off at the upper end of high. So although it can bring out the unnaturalness of 5 way, I find itself not neutral to a larger extent than 5 way. 


Edited by tupac0306 - 2/28/13 at 10:14am
post #2570 of 4037

I might venture into "fixing" SE-5 later. Not sure whether Grzegorz would replace the drivers, change the crossover or something, we'll see. I'll need fresh impressions though - and perhaps made at a different audiologist.

 

CIEMs are like a box of random chocolates - never really know what you get.


Edited by AstralStorm - 2/28/13 at 10:24am
post #2571 of 4037
Quote:

Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

 

 

CIEMs are like a box of random chocolates - never really know what you get.

 

 

Yep.

 

and:

 

Each Individual's ear canal anatomies are like a box of random chocolates - never really know what you get.

post #2572 of 4037

If anyone wants to watch a video slideshow going through the build process of the Ambient AM4, AppleInsider Russia made one here:

 

post #2573 of 4037

Hey everyone, I have a question about nail polish on CIEMs again. I finally applied a few coats to my CIEMs and they fit perfect now but the problem is before I insert them for the first time, they are nice and shiny but once I take it out of my ears it looks like it has been smudged. I know for sure it isn't ear wax because it won't wipe off and I've dried the coat for over 10 hours just wondering if this is rubbing off in my ears or something. Also wondering what I can clean it with, I used to clean my monitors with rubbing alcohol on a q-tip but afraid the alcohol might clean some of the nail polish off. Looking forward to some insight from people that have done this before, thanks!

post #2574 of 4037

Ok

 

Here's an interesting one and one I'm not sure how to go about solving.  I've had a few missteps in the world of customs (cosmic ears aside, note some of the most helpful patient people around!).  My right ear seems to be "weird".   I get the impressions made, send them off and the right never fits properly.  Until this week I could never figure out why,  In desperation I tried pressing the earpiece in with one hand gently (less pressure then it takes to put in an iem anyway), lo and behold a pretty much perfect seal!  I then let go and the seal went.  This also explains how I was able to insert the piece not one but two ways and have it hold there (albeit not comfortably after awhile anyway!).  Now at this point you are probably going to start pointing fingers at the impressions.  However I have had the impressions back and they fit perfectly!  What I think needs to happen is to have the inner piece of the shell (not the canal the top part)reduced allowing the canal part to sit comfortably in the ear, instead of as now relying on the top part of the ear to support the "weight" and causing the fit issues.

 

As I said the fact that this has happened before makes getting customs for me a pita (and it's really thanks to the patience of the people at Cosmic that I've got this far). 

 

Just thought I'd post this to see if anyone else had experience like this.

 

Cheers

post #2575 of 4037
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post

Ok

 

Here's an interesting one and one I'm not sure how to go about solving.  I've had a few missteps in the world of customs (cosmic ears aside, note some of the most helpful patient people around!).  My right ear seems to be "weird".   I get the impressions made, send them off and the right never fits properly.  Until this week I could never figure out why,  In desperation I tried pressing the earpiece in with one hand gently (less pressure then it takes to put in an iem anyway), lo and behold a pretty much perfect seal!  I then let go and the seal went.  This also explains how I was able to insert the piece not one but two ways and have it hold there (albeit not comfortably after awhile anyway!).  Now at this point you are probably going to start pointing fingers at the impressions.  However I have had the impressions back and they fit perfectly!  What I think needs to happen is to have the inner piece of the shell (not the canal the top part)reduced allowing the canal part to sit comfortably in the ear, instead of as now relying on the top part of the ear to support the "weight" and causing the fit issues.

 

As I said the fact that this has happened before makes getting customs for me a pita (and it's really thanks to the patience of the people at Cosmic that I've got this far). 

 

Just thought I'd post this to see if anyone else had experience like this.

 

Cheers


I'm not sure if I read your description correctly but I just took a picture of my monitors to show you. While I was thickening it up with nail polish, I noticed that I too would get an okay seal if I pushed it in so I figured I'd try thickening up the part that I drew on in white and it now fits perfectly without me having to push them in to get a seal. Hope it might give you some idea on how you can fix yours?


Edited by infam0ussteven - 2/28/13 at 12:20pm
post #2576 of 4037

Cheers for that.  Unfortunately Ce and I have played about with thickness and canal length.  I also had that part thickened in the past with fisher and it just made it uncomfortable.

 

Cheers

post #2577 of 4037
Quote:
Originally Posted by infam0ussteven View Post


I'm not sure if I read your description correctly but I just took a picture of my monitors to show you. While I was thickening it up with nail polish, I noticed that I too would get an okay seal if I pushed it in so I figured I'd try thickening up the part that I drew on in white and it now fits perfectly without me having to push them in to get a seal. Hope it might give you some idea on how you can fix yours?


I'm on about that part where the red writing is just to be (ahem!) clear.  I can actually angle it so the canal is level whilst that part is sloped and insert it, or I can insert the usual way.

 

Cheers

post #2578 of 4037

Perhaps try making the impressions with only a very, very gentle push of the impression material or even none at all (and hope for no bubbles). Pushing too hard on it can distort the shape enough to cause misfitting impressions - that's what happened with mine the first time.

post #2579 of 4037
Thread Starter 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

Yeah, the L05QD definitely seems like the most interesting model. From the impressions I've seen of it, it's supposed to sound like an uber-ER4S. The L51 also seems pretty cool with its exchangeable resistor system. They provide you with a variety of resistors that dampen the bass from 10 ohm all the way to 43 ohm or something like that.

 

I've heard that the main reason why CW is mostly interested in only the domestic market is that it's basically a one-man operation, he doesn't want to have to deal with all the English and overseas issues, so he'd rather just invest in providing good service to the Japanese.

 

Very interesting indeed and Mr. Kazuhiro Hayashi has a nice blog and is very friendly.

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

I might venture into "fixing" SE-5 later. Not sure whether Grzegorz would replace the drivers, change the crossover or something, we'll see. I'll need fresh impressions though - and perhaps made at a different audiologist.

 

CIEMs are like a box of random chocolates - never really know what you get.

 

I hope Grzegorz can help you because my ears tell me something different than your ears are telling you.

 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

If anyone wants to watch a video slideshow going through the build process of the Ambient AM4, AppleInsider Russia made one here:

 

 

Always coming through with the good stuff!  Thanks.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by infam0ussteven View Post

Hey everyone, I have a question about nail polish on CIEMs again. I finally applied a few coats to my CIEMs and they fit perfect now but the problem is before I insert them for the first time, they are nice and shiny but once I take it out of my ears it looks like it has been smudged. I know for sure it isn't ear wax because it won't wipe off and I've dried the coat for over 10 hours just wondering if this is rubbing off in my ears or something. Also wondering what I can clean it with, I used to clean my monitors with rubbing alcohol on a q-tip but afraid the alcohol might clean some of the nail polish off. Looking forward to some insight from people that have done this before, thanks!

 

I use Priti NYC polish because it is organic and it dries hard and does not discolor.  Before that I used my wife's Wet n Wild and it felt like it was burning a bit even after it dried.  As far as the smudging, that shouldn't happen if it is dried properly.  I am sure you are cleaning the surface before applying the nail polish.  I found the best method is to put on many thinner coats and let them dry properly.  Rubbing alcohol would most likely take off the nail polish, but I haven't tried it, hopefully someone else can help you, or you can do a test.  Put the nail polish on something else and then see if the rubbing alcohol take it off the surface.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post

Ok

 

Here's an interesting one and one I'm not sure how to go about solving.  I've had a few missteps in the world of customs (cosmic ears aside, note some of the most helpful patient people around!).  My right ear seems to be "weird".   I get the impressions made, send them off and the right never fits properly.  Until this week I could never figure out why,  In desperation I tried pressing the earpiece in with one hand gently (less pressure then it takes to put in an iem anyway), lo and behold a pretty much perfect seal!  I then let go and the seal went.  This also explains how I was able to insert the piece not one but two ways and have it hold there (albeit not comfortably after awhile anyway!).  Now at this point you are probably going to start pointing fingers at the impressions.  However I have had the impressions back and they fit perfectly!  What I think needs to happen is to have the inner piece of the shell (not the canal the top part)reduced allowing the canal part to sit comfortably in the ear, instead of as now relying on the top part of the ear to support the "weight" and causing the fit issues.

 

As I said the fact that this has happened before makes getting customs for me a pita (and it's really thanks to the patience of the people at Cosmic that I've got this far). 

 

Just thought I'd post this to see if anyone else had experience like this.

 

Cheers

 

I can't say I have heard of this exact issue, but I am glad you have figured it out and hopefully the adjustments will result in a great and comfortable fit. 

post #2580 of 4037
Hey average Joe, what did you use to clean the iems before applying the nail polish?

Also guessing you can use normal polish removed if to much has been applied?

Thanks.
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