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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 146

post #2176 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I still have other reviews to finish...

 

Oh, after tomorrow, I mean, of course.

post #2177 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

I don't really know, but I would imagine it might be difficult to tell the size from a pic, especially if the shell sizes and picture angles are different.  I am waiting for you to tell me the differences, you have been eyeballing them enough!

 

Yes, but I no longer have my Miracles (had to sell them to free up some cash) tongue_smile.gif

 

 

Hope UM don't have to compromise on sound quality if they're using different drivers, coz I was hoping to replace my Miracles, like-for-like, when finances permit.

post #2178 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

I was thinking of the 1964 Ears V3 as a nice laid back sound signature. It's certainly engaging but also smooth and sounds really good at lower volumes due to the high level of dynamics. 


I'm thinking very hard about this one, especially after reading your great review. Hmmmm

post #2179 of 4123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by 23t23dS View Post

Does anyone have recommendations for ciems with a laid back sound signature; something suitable for leaving on as background music while working? I have the Heir 4.A and love it but it drags me away from my work a little too much, so looking for something to complement it when I really need to get some stuff done.

 

Project86 writes great reviews so I can see why you would want to go for the V3.  There is another V3 review here which compares the V3 to the Alclair Reference.  You may want to check this out for additional information as getting the right sound signature is important for CIEMs due to the resale value.


Edited by average_joe - 11/5/12 at 8:33am
post #2180 of 4123

I poked around looking for iBasso DX100 pairing comments with the JH16... I'm sure there is a comment somewhere, but I didn't see it.

I'm looking into the 801/C4/DX100 as a possible upgrade from my Rocoo BA in the future. I'm leaning towards the DX100 as I'd like to get the NT6 in the future. (I have a Whiplash Hybrid V3 on the way, and I read that it makes the NT6 sing! .. as does the DX100.)

...but how does the JH16 sound with the DX100? =)
 

EDIT: I'm a dork. :P

I missed it, it's on the JH16 review! 7.5/10! Doh. Oh well, thanks again Joe. ;^^


Edited by SursumCorda - 11/8/12 at 10:03pm
post #2181 of 4123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SursumCorda View Post

I poked around looking for iBasso DX100 pairing comments with the JH16... I'm sure there is a comment somewhere, but I didn't see it.

I'm looking into the 801/C4/DX100 as a possible upgrade from my Rocoo BA in the future. I'm leaning towards the DX100 as I'd like to get the NT6 in the future. (I have a Whiplash Hybrid V3 on the way, and I read that it makes the NT6 sing! .. as does the DX100.)

...but how does the JH16 sound with the DX100? =)
 

EDIT: I'm a dork. :P

I missed it, it's on the JH16 review! 7.5/10! Doh. Oh well, thanks again Joe. ;^^

 

Glad I could be of help ;)

post #2182 of 4123

Hey folks, me again. I cannot turn RE272 into a decent custom or wear them directly and SE-5 dark treble + bass tilt sounds pretty boring to me (and definitely not any kind of reference), so I get to equalize.

 

Now, RE272 with more bass and impact and a tinge sharper midrange would be perfect. So, I've selected a few possible competitors:

Alclair Reference

Alclair RSM (not reviewed?)

Fabs

Dream Earz aud-5X

Ambient Acoustics AM4 Pro

 

Pity FutureSonics Ear Monitors are also dark, actually have very similar balance to SE-5. Starkey is out of CIEM business too.

Possibly some kind of hybrid CIEM?

Unfortunately, Cosmic Ears are all out of order, would be a nice try with HY3.

 

Any other recommendations, especially from people who know RE272?

Please avoid TWFK for treble if possible, that driver adds unwarranted 6kHz emphasis that's not entirely fixable. I have one already.

(That already speaks against Dream Earz.)

 

Currently leaning towards Alclairs. Fabs seem very usable, but at a cost to sound quality, currently second bet.


Edited by AstralStorm - 11/9/12 at 5:17pm
post #2183 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

Hey folks, me again. I cannot turn RE272 into a decent custom or wear them directly and SE-5 dark treble + bass tilt sounds pretty boring to me (and definitely not any kind of reference), so I get to equalize.

 

Now, RE272 with more bass and impact and a tinge sharper midrange would be perfect. So, I've selected a few possible competitors:

Alclair Reference

Alclair RSM (not reviewed?)

Fabs

Dream Earz aud-5X

 

Pity FutureSonics Ear Monitors are also dark, actually have very similar balance to SE-5. Starkey is out of CIEM business too.

Possibly some kind of hybrid CIEM?

Unfortunately, Cosmic Ears are all out of order, would be a nice try with HY3.

 

Any other recommendations, especially from people who know RE272?

Please avoid TWFK for treble if possible, that driver adds unwarranted 6kHz emphasis that's not entirely fixable. I have one already.

(That already speaks against Dream Earz.)

5 way doesn't have dark treble at all. In fact, it has the best extended treble in my CIEMs. I suggest you upgrade your source first, you will heard the difference. 


Edited by tupac0306 - 11/9/12 at 5:04pm
post #2184 of 4123
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

5 way doesn't have dark treble at all. In fact, it has the best extended treble in my CIEMs. I suggest you upgrade your source first, you will heard the difference. 

 

X2.  While the 5-way is on the warmer darker side, it doesn't have dark treble.  The treble does change more than with any other CIEM I have (as does the entire presentation) depending on the recording.  I can go from something like the JH16, SA-43, and even the PRM to an extent and be shocked by the amount of change in the 5-way from track to track.

post #2185 of 4123
Thread Starter 

Starkey Norway, former manufacturer of the SA, HF, and ERM series is now being manufactured by the same person, Alf Middelthon, under the brand M-Fidelity.  For anyone that has worked with Alf, you know he is a true professional. He will service all SA, HF, and ERM regardless of the branding.  He has a new email address here.

post #2186 of 4123

What does the TWFK 6k peak sound like? They have a bigger peak at 2.9khz from the graph though.

post #2187 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

5 way doesn't have dark treble at all. In fact, it has the best extended treble in my CIEMs. I suggest you upgrade your source first, you will heard the difference. 

It has very extended treble, yes, but it's shelved and "non-fatiguing". Specifically, it is linear right up to 3.5kHz. Afterwards, it rolls off slowly, smoothly but surely: -4 dB @ 6k, -8 dB @ 8k, -12 dB @ 20 kHz - but everything is there, unlike some other armature IEMs. Bass is boosted with +7 dB @ 100 Hz, but +3 dB @ 200 Hz, very interesting "peak" shape. Extremely minor subbass rolloff, smaller than many dynamic drivers..

The bass boost and huge impact magnifies the difference, giving SE-5 a bass slant. This is most annoying with classical and other acoustic music, as well as some kinds of electronica.

I'll try a reshell, but I suspect that's just the way they were tuned - sounding similar to Audeze LCD 2 (closer to rev2).

Yes, I've checked the sources - this source (Audiotrak Prodigy Cube) is actually the brightest of all of them (funny, since it's OPA2134 w/ JRC for current), near zero impedance and drives SE-5 admirably. I've also checked some others, like Arrow, Nuforce and FiiO desktop amps as well as HifiMan 802 DAP - they're all noticeably darker.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

What does the TWFK 6k peak sound like? They have a bigger peak at 2.9khz from the graph though.

The 9k peak actually works fine for me (referenced to 500 Hz, it's 0 dB - it shows up as a peak ref. 1kHz; but bass is then far too loud and warm), the 6k one clashes with my HRTF and is most prominent with shorter foams. This 6k peak can be reduced by certain silicone tips or extremely deep fit, but it is still bit resonant and harsh (not exactly sibilant fortunately).

The peak mostly distorts soundstage, putting it "on my face" instead of "in the front".

 

In comparison, RE272 is linear in highs and bass with a 3kHz dip and a small 4kHz dip (due to the foam filter?), giving it a bit overly smooth sound. Unmodded, they have pretty little bass and bass impact. When I modded them with foam to absorb resonances (or just opened their back), they gained some real bass impact and a slight subbass boost, went a bit less smooth and faster, making them even better.

They destroy my TWFK Brainwavz B2 utterly in everything except higher mids, but SE-5 is another league (when equalized), probably due to full, large, heavy shell giving nice bone conduction.

However, the fit is quite terrible - long strain relief is pushing against my ears, tips have a tendency to go too deep and close or lose seal. Isolation is also quite low.

The tricky part is that you cannot really remove them from their case - I've managed to destroy 3 out of 4 drivers by trying. (voice coils torn, these things are delicate) I'll try once more, but with a different approach - Hammertime - destroy the case completely to get at the driver.

 

--

Since Starkey is still sold, I can add Starkey SA-43 to the list of watched CIEMs. I'm on to trying the two other companies making ear impressions locally (Geers and Audiovox).


Edited by AstralStorm - 11/10/12 at 2:24am
post #2188 of 4123
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

It has very extended treble, yes, but it's shelved and "non-fatiguing". Specifically, it is linear right up to 3.5kHz. Afterwards, it rolls off slowly, smoothly but surely: -4 dB @ 6k, -8 dB @ 8k, -12 dB @ 20 kHz - but everything is there, unlike some other armature IEMs. Bass is boosted with +7 dB @ 100 Hz, but +3 dB @ 200 Hz, very interesting "peak" shape. Extremely minor subbass rolloff, smaller than many dynamic drivers..

The bass boost and huge impact magnifies the difference, giving SE-5 a bass slant. This is most annoying with classical and other acoustic music, as well as some kinds of electronica.

I'll try a reshell, but I suspect that's just the way they were tuned - sounding similar to Audeze LCD 2 (closer to rev2).

Yes, I've checked the sources - this source (Audiotrak Prodigy Cube) is actually the brightest of all of them (funny, since it's OPA2134 w/ JRC for current), near zero impedance and drives SE-5 admirably. I've also checked some others, like Arrow, Nuforce and FiiO desktop amps as well as HifiMan 802 DAP - they're all noticeably darker.

 

 

Wow.you must be a fan of extremely bright treble. 5 way only has a small cut (~ 2db at most before it sounds sibilant) around 5-8 k to my ears, from 8k to 20k it extends all the way. I actually never heard of anything so far (earphones/headphones) that extends that far to make you hear every single micro detail that it there. You right it does sound something like LCD 2, LCD 2 is a dark headphone because it lacks the air around 5-8k, but the ultra high is similar to 5 way, well extended which is making the headphone very transparent IMO. 

Well this might be something about the actual earphone which is what I experienced from my 3 way pro. 3 way pro is supposed to sound similar to 5 way but more analytical, and brighter according to the description of spiral ear. However mine came with a very serious treble roll off that is overly warm. I guess different pair of 5 way sounds different too?..

 

To me, brightness is from 10k-20k, 5k-8k defines how airy and how sibilant, and the extent of forward/laid back the earphone sounds.

post #2189 of 4123

LCD2 has a 15 dB shelf at the high end. It's not ultrabright I'm after, it's that many headphones actually feature rolloffs or shelves at the high end.

Have a graph: http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/AudezeLCD2Rev2.pdf

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/HiFiMANRE272.pdf - but Tyll used the long tips, which sound attenuated in the air a lot to me. I preferred their short biflanges a lot, except for the fit.

 

And these I use daily - they have some resonance (not just some boost) around 9k, but otherwise are rolled off - despite that, tonal balance is pretty good:

http://www.innerfidelity.com/images/BeyerdynamicT70250Ohm.pdf

They still need some EQ in this high end range though.

 

The perfect sound would probably be either like Hifiman HE-400 (but with less distortion) or HE-500. Or perhaps Stax SR-007 Mk1 sans the subbass cut or Stax SR-404 - that one was great, but ugly like a dog. (For comparison, newer Stax SR-507 is just as bright, but much less airy.)

 

Senn HD800 is also relatively close, but too hot in the lower highs and bit less airy than either of the above.

 

Are you sure you don't have airiness and brightness mixed up? Linear highest end (>12k) causes airiness to me, unless there are resonances - these sound harsh and grainy.

Brightness is a different beast, it has 2 kinds: the sibilant/crunch kind at 4-6k and sparkle kind at 8-10k. 10k-12k is interesting, in that it changes soundstaging more than the balance, but if there's too much, it sounds glassy and brittle.

 

And no, my SE-5 don't have that short ear canal part, but the fit is a bit imperfect. That shouldn't affect response this much.


Edited by AstralStorm - 11/10/12 at 7:09am
post #2190 of 4123

As far as the brightness and airiness, I can only define them by listening to various of my CIEMs, My JH16 sounds really sibilant and has a bit more forward presentation of instruments because of the peak around 7k. But I do find the overall sound of JH16 not as transparent and bright as 5 way on top end system (especially with a bit more emphasis at 16-18k on 5 way), because JH16 has a massive treble roll off from 10k.  I guess the only right combination of the 2 regions of frequency can produce the right treble presentation. probably I am really sibilance sensitive, I tend to choose IEMs without hump around 5-9K. I used to think 5-9k part will determine how bright the CIEMs sound, but after listening to NT6 I changed my mind. 10-16k plays a very important part too IMO.

 

I might mixed them up anyway. It's hard to describe how bright a earphone sounds by looking at graphs

 

I am pretty interested in how HE500 sounds, specially after reading the review of David's.


Edited by tupac0306 - 11/10/12 at 7:47am
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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)