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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 117

post #1741 of 4815

I basically think of it as a labor charge. It takes time to mix up those colors, apply those engravings, etc. It's not like they are turning out a dozen customs a day. When someone does it really well, they are able to charge a premium for it. 

post #1742 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by yancem View Post  Ok, I get the Wizard's signature thing but I don't understand the charging extra to have different color shells and face plates as long as you are choosing from their standard colors.   How does it cost them anything to make one shell blue and the other red or to have different color face plates than the shells?  Maybe I am missing something but I don't get that.  And $85 for multi-color art/logos when most companies I've seen are charging $25-50 seems a little excessive also.  I understand that they are offering a good deal on the headphones themselves, which is one of the reasons I want to consider them but I would rather have a couple more "standard" options to choose from.  To me it's kind of like having to pay extra for A/C in car you are buying in Texas.  Who doesn't want A/C in the south?  Just build that into the base price.  Now the fancy wood face plates, charge a premium for those because no one else seems to offer anything close to them.  That I get.

 

Not everyone wants wood/CF/PCB/whatever faceplates or different colors. There are some that don't care, such as industry professionals i.e. recording/mixing/mastering engineers. They just want something that can get the job done, so a simple red/blue or black will suffice. They can get a CIEM from Heir for a great price then. Honestly, CIEMs are for them and stage musicians; in their inception, they were never meant to serve the audiophile/enthusiast community. Yes, demand for them has allowed these companies to specifically serve us in ways never before imagined, but we were never the intended audience. Wood plates are a luxury item; if Heir charged extra for cables on a new CIEM, then that would be nickel-and-diming people, but I don't think these charges are unreasonable.

post #1743 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by yancem View Post


Ok, I get the Wizard's signature thing but I don't understand the charging extra to have different color shells and face plates as long as you are choosing from their standard colors.   How does it cost them anything to make one shell blue and the other red or to have different color face plates than the shells?  Maybe I am missing something but I don't get that.  And $85 for multi-color art/logos when most companies I've seen are charging $25-50 seems a little excessive also.  I understand that they are offering a good deal on the headphones themselves, which is one of the reasons I want to consider them but I would rather have a couple more "standard" options to choose from.  To me it's kind of like having to pay extra for A/C in car you are buying in Texas.  Who doesn't want A/C in the south?  Just build that into the base price.  Now the fancy wood face plates, charge a premium for those because no one else seems to offer anything close to them.  That I get.

 

But you were comparing them to UE, earlier. The price of the UE 4 Pro (2 drivers, $400) is closest to that of the HA 3.A (3 drivers, $350) and HA 4.A (4 drivers, $450). However, you can't choose any color for the UE 4 Pro: not for the faceplate, not for the tips, not even for the shells.

post #1744 of 4815

Ok, I apologize, I clearly am not familiar enough with the industry or its practices.  I just recently started thinking about getting a set of CIEM's and at looking at the pricing of other companies' custom options I noticed some noticeable differences.  In watching a video of the making of UE CIEM's (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWdwikZoXzA) it didn't appear that there would be much difference in cost of materials or in time to have the two shells done in different colors or to have the face plates done in different colors.  Maybe they charge so much more for their monitors that the material/production costs are as big of a concern.  Maybe they use cheaper materials.  I truly don't know but I had always been of the impression that the advanced electronics and the general time to create the molds were the reason for the high cost of CIEM's not which color acrylic is used where.  I guess that I was incorrect.

 

And for the record, I did say that I understood the extra cost for the Heir wood face plates.  They are truly artistic and on another level from what else I've seen.  I figured that they would be beyond budget, I just didn't realize that my other custom ideas might also.

post #1745 of 4815

Hidition NT-6 pro better than SE 5-way Reference? Both are enthusiastic remarks in Review - but which one is best for sound, I did not understand.

post #1746 of 4815

Sigh.  Whichever sound sig you prefer, that's the better one for you.

post #1747 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by yancem View Post

I truly don't know but I had always been of the impression that the advanced electronics and the general time to create the molds were the reason for the high cost of CIEM's not which color acrylic is used where.  I guess that I was incorrect.

 

As project86 said, it's a labor charge. It is more difficult to cleanly associate a shell and a faceplate of different colors. The Wizard changed his pricing policy after spending a lot of time making this CIEM:

 

429938_308617979192146_1245142192_n.jpg

post #1748 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danpong View Post

Joe have you ever listen to home setup with stein music harmonizer? I got a chance to listen to it at the hifi audio show in Thailand and really like the sound with that setup because it was so full and luscious sound no matter what type of music they played. Reason I mention this because I think after market cable like cardas for HD800 I had was the same great effect eventhough not as good. What after market iem cable do you recommend to have the same effect of full sourround and luscious sound like you are there at concert hall.

 

Unfortunately, no, I haven't.  The 8.A has a very full and luscious sound, but it is mid-forward.  The SA-43 on the other hand, while not being as full or luscious, is more like a concert hall.  The LS8 is liquid with a warmer sound than the SA-43 and more laid back than the 8.A.  All are very good in their own way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kashtan View Post

Hidition NT-6 pro better than SE 5-way Reference? Both are enthusiastic remarks in Review - but which one is best for sound, I did not understand.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisSC View Post

Sigh.  Whichever sound sig you prefer, that's the better one for you.

 

I couldn't have said it better myself.  Buying off technical merit alone can lead to long term disappointment.  The 5-way is more of an organic sound while the NT-6/NT-6 pro are brighter and more analytical.

post #1749 of 4815
Mr joe one of these day I will drive to orange county try to listen to your customs collections so I can buy the right one. I hope you live up here in silicon valley. I'll bring you thai food in exchange.
post #1750 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danpong View Post

Mr joe one of these day I will drive to orange county try to listen to your customs collections so I can buy the right one. I hope you live up here in silicon valley. I'll bring you thai food in exchange.

 

I actually get a bunch of people asking me to listen to my custom IEMs, but since they are custom for my ears, chances are they won't fit, and even if they do, the sound could be dramatically different.  I recently had a reshell and the result before and after was quite significant, and another data point is my original 5-way and the replacement 5-way, which are technically about the same, but have different sound signatures.  Unfortunately, I just have to describe them to the best of my ability.

post #1751 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

I actually get a bunch of people asking me to listen to my custom IEMs, but since they are custom for my ears, chances are they won't fit, and even if they do, the sound could be dramatically different.  I recently had a reshell and the result before and after was quite significant, and another data point is my original 5-way and the replacement 5-way, which are technically about the same, but have different sound signatures.  Unfortunately, I just have to describe them to the best of my ability.

yeah I know about the fit.  You know I think this ciem journey will be expensive.  normally with the good fit set, how long do you have until it become unfit due to your ear shape change?  I was thinking earlier about get the JH3A with the demo shape so it will last me forever until the driver fail of course but not due to my ear change.  Do you see hear the different between demo ciem and ear shape fit ciem?

post #1752 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by danpong View Post

yeah I know about the fit.  You know I think this ciem journey will be expensive.  normally with the good fit set, how long do you have until it become unfit due to your ear shape change?  I was thinking earlier about get the JH3A with the demo shape so it will last me forever until the driver fail of course but not due to my ear change.  Do you see hear the different between demo ciem and ear shape fit ciem?

 

Probably quite a while unless you're very young or put on/lose a lot of weight.

 

Does anyone know whether JH would be willing to do a remold for the same user in case they gradually stopped fitting well?


Edited by Staal - 6/27/12 at 2:23am
post #1753 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by Staal View Post

 

Probably quite a while unless you're very young or put on/lose a lot of weight.

 

Does anyone know whether JH would be willing to do a remold for the same user in case they gradually stopped fitting well?

 

It's probably different for each person too - we all gain/lose weight differently. So one person could gain 50 pounds and probably not have a difference in fit, while someone else would do the same thing and have major issues. The moral of the story is - try not to gain a lot! Or if you lose a lot, be prepared to reward yourself with some new customs!

 

I don't think JH would remold their own stuff. For any reason. Or at least that used to be the case, maybe things have changed. 

post #1754 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by danpong View Post

yeah I know about the fit.  You know I think this ciem journey will be expensive.  normally with the good fit set, how long do you have until it become unfit due to your ear shape change?  I was thinking earlier about get the JH3A with the demo shape so it will last me forever until the driver fail of course but not due to my ear change.  Do you see hear the different between demo ciem and ear shape fit ciem?

 

I haven't had to ask any manufacturer if they can remold a custom due to changes in my ear, and luckily all of my custom IEMs still fit the same as they have.  I haven't gained/lost weight in years.

 

As far as differences between demos and the real thing, I have noticed differences in all of my data points, but some have been much worse than others.  For example, the UM and JHA demos have been way off, the UE demos have been somewhat off (at least the UERM), not sure about the Future Sonics demo (and hope they don't sound like the demo), and the Sensphonics demo sounded pretty good (and was very easy to get a good, deep seal).  You can read about the Rooth LS8 demo I compared with my real LS8 here.  And I have heard a Miracle molded for someone else's ears which sounded better than the demo.  In my opinion, it is a crap shoot and you may or may not hear close to what you would hear with the real thing, but more than likely not.

post #1755 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

I haven't had to ask any manufacturer if they can remold a custom due to changes in my ear, and luckily all of my custom IEMs still fit the same as they have.  I haven't gained/lost weight in years.

As far as differences between demos and the real thing, I have noticed differences in all of my data points, but some have been much worse than others.  For example, the UM and JHA demos have been way off, the UE demos have been somewhat off (at least the UERM), not sure about the Future Sonics demo (and hope they don't sound like the demo), and the Sensphonics demo sounded pretty good (and was very easy to get a good, deep seal).  You can read about the Rooth LS8 demo I compared with my real LS8 here.  And I have heard a Miracle molded for someone else's ears which sounded better than the demo.  In my opinion, it is a crap shoot and you may or may not hear close to what you would hear with the real thing, but more than likely not.
Wow really interesting to hear that some of demo sound way off. I think it might be due to multiple bore configuration of the real custom and one combined bore of demo. May be the sound travel in clash and cancel each other out when they combine. It seems like I have to get in shape and stay in shape for this toy to work forever. 555

Also, joe do you think the defferent between demo and real one that way off on JHA and UM are due to the seal only or the bore coniguration also? What if you can manage to get the best seal from the right size foam tip. Do you think the sound quality will still be off?
Edited by danpong - 6/28/12 at 2:30pm
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