Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review... - Page 101

post #1501 of 3830

I guess I was being too critical on them. They're more of a CM that does everything above average, but isn't a leader in any of the criteria right? Do you know when they'll release it?

post #1502 of 3830

Got to have a brief play with my Mi-3s before they got bundled back up until my birthday, sound quality straight out the box and just through my MacBook Pro's headphone-out was absolutely stellar. Can't wait to get them hooked up to my amp and iMod.

 

A quick question though, how much benefit to balanced armature drivers see from being burned in? I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it makes much of a difference compared to the changes you can audibly hear in a dynamic driver.

post #1503 of 3830

Slight improvement is what I heard but from my experience I couldnt tell any difference with the BA earphones I have purchased

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post

Got to have a brief play with my Mi-3s before they got bundled back up until my birthday, sound quality straight out the box and just through my MacBook Pro's headphone-out was absolutely stellar. Can't wait to get them hooked up to my amp and iMod.

 

A quick question though, how much benefit to balanced armature drivers see from being burned in? I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it makes much of a difference compared to the changes you can audibly hear in a dynamic driver.

 

 

post #1504 of 3830

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post
A quick question though, how much benefit to balanced armature drivers see from being burned in?

BA drivers themselves do not burn in. I confirmed it with balanced armature engineers and I tested it on myself (with my ears actually lol)

 

I do suppose (I don't like word "belileve" in this case) that dynamic drivers do burn-in, though

post #1505 of 3830

Dynamic drivers will have a big change while they are burning in.

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post

 

BA drivers themselves do not burn in. I confirmed it with balanced armature engineers and I tested it on myself (with my ears actually lol)

 

I do suppose (I don't like word "belileve" in this case) that dynamic drivers do burn-in, though

 

 

post #1506 of 3830
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by project86 View Post

 

Absolutely! I feel bad when I do a review, or people ask me via PM - "which is better - this $450 custom or that $520 custom?" And the answer is not as simple as they would like. It really does come down to the flavor, as you said. But I feel like I'm sounding deliberately vague or polite by saying the two models are roughly equal in quality with a different focus.

 

I get the same impression when I read your reviews - it's not that you are trying to be politically correct and not choose a winner..... it's just that all of them have good traits and average traits, but few have really poor traits enough to separate them from the group. 

 

I too get those questions too, but more often I get questions about how a CIEM compares with what people currently have or, one out of every maybe 10 questions is how something I have compares with the Miracle, lol.  I really should get one of those!

 

As I try to do, and so do you from reading your great reviews, is not say what is 'better' but trying to take personal preference and bias out of it and evaluate the CIEM in question based on technical merit and sound signature.  Having the perspective of owning many very high performing CIEMs and full sized cans is very valuable for forming a correct perspective.  And I usually see two reactions to someone getting a CIEM...a "wow, this is amazing" or a "I am not all that impressed" based on their perspective and expectations.  CIEMs have more complex sound signatures and BAs do have a different method of recreating sound (see my little writeup in the 2nd post of this thread) and I think the brain takes some time to adjust to this, but once it is figured out, the full appreciation starts to take place.  An average headphone can sound great out  of the box, but a great headphone will withstand the test of time. 

 

As far as other reviewers, I have read so many reviews where, at least from my perspective as to how I have heard IEMs/CIEMs that people are quite biased toward the sound they like, not the technical performance.  And reviews like that are OK as long as it is clear as to a persons preferences, but often times they are not.  They won't be considered "politically correct" like our reviews, but I know, especially with my reviews, that the length and depth of the review is too much for many.  I am thinking about how to simplify things and really describe the flavor simply while providing the details for those that want it, which is why I have the chart at the top of my first post in this thread.  However, I do want to improve that in the future.  Time is not on my side, however!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xymordos View Post

I guess I was being too critical on them. They're more of a CM that does everything above average, but isn't a leader in any of the criteria right? Do you know when they'll release it?

 

They aren't average in transparency or coherence for the price!  And I am not sure when it will be released, but I will inquire for a specific date.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gofre View Post

Got to have a brief play with my Mi-3s before they got bundled back up until my birthday, sound quality straight out the box and just through my MacBook Pro's headphone-out was absolutely stellar. Can't wait to get them hooked up to my amp and iMod.

 

A quick question though, how much benefit to balanced armature drivers see from being burned in? I've heard conflicting reports on whether or not it makes much of a difference compared to the changes you can audibly hear in a dynamic driver.

 

Awesome!  I was listening to the Mi-3 not too long ago for comparison with the DC4 and they have such a sweet midrange and just a great overall presentation.  

 

As for burn in, I firmly believe that there even BA IEMs burn in over time.  The higher the performance, better the source used, and more critically you listen (plus having a constant frame of reference) will allow you to hear those differences, but they can be subtle.  Why would a BA IEM burn in?  The cable, crossover components, and the magnet of the BAs.  These are my theories and not proven and unfortunately I don't have the time or equipment to really test for these things (and not meant to be controversal): I have an EE degree and one of my teachers talked about the alignment of molecules to form channels in materials (specifically silicon in this case) creating paths of lower resistance on a molecular level, which would apply to cables and components.  And magnets develop different magnetism characteristics after there is a magnetic field generated.  If you remember CRTs, they were able to be degaussed to improve the picture as magnetic fields would develop on the screen panel.  Different actual methodology, but same concept.

 

I usually say how I hear something out of the box and then after 100 hours.  Sure, some of it is me becoming familiar with the CIEM as I also believe in brain burn in.  There are some threads on here that discuss using different track (for dynamic drivers) that achieve different final sound signatures depending on the burn in tracks, which to me indicates different types of magnetic fields (strength for example) are applied which will result in different gaussian charges in turn resulting in the different sound.  

post #1507 of 3830

 

Quote:
Why would a BA IEM burn in?  The cable, crossover components, and the magnet of the BAs.

do you believe that bruning these components will give you change like 0.5dB? I hardly think so. You have to remember that dampers chokes with moisture - after longer period of time in ear sound can vary. It's also happening over time.

Also different volume leves will give you different feelings about signature and can change your perception.

 

I am trying to be sceptical with BA brun-in because I don't hear it. Dynamics are different beasts. I recently reviewed JVC FXT90 which was poor at the beginign and very well soudning after 200h. I observed the biggest change in highs. I tend to think it wasn't placebo effect becuase after listening to another earphone for a few days and going back to FXT90 I didn't feel like there was any highs issue which I'd felt at the first listen.

 

After all I think that it's good that joe does burn in earphone becuase he eliminates possible changes of the sound from the equation

post #1508 of 3830
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by piotrus-g View Post

 

do you believe that bruning these components will give you change like 0.5dB? I hardly think so. You have to remember that dampers chokes with moisture - after longer period of time in ear sound can vary. It's also happening over time.

Also different volume leves will give you different feelings about signature and can change your perception.

 

I am trying to be sceptical with BA brun-in because I don't hear it. Dynamics are different beasts. I recently reviewed JVC FXT90 which was poor at the beginign and very well soudning after 200h. I observed the biggest change in highs. I tend to think it wasn't placebo effect becuase after listening to another earphone for a few days and going back to FXT90 I didn't feel like there was any highs issue which I'd felt at the first listen.

 

After all I think that it's good that joe does burn in earphone becuase he eliminates possible changes of the sound from the equation

 

It isn't about a difference such as 0.5 dB, it is about the micro-details within the music that creates things such as room echos and makes certain sounds more understandable.  My first eye opening event was with the SM3 when I could 'understand' they type of sound that was being recreated in a track, and it made sense what the noise was coming from (I forgot exactly what it was, but with all the relatively compressed soundstage IEMs I had before that, it was just a noise).  That isn't burn in related, but lends to my point of understanding.  The more of the micro detail that comes through, the better.  So, if there is a channel with less resistance, even if it doesn't measure much and the effect is negligible for the main notes where most of the power is, a change can make a difference with the little things which CIEMs seem to do better than lower cost IEMs.  

And what differentiates an 'audiophile' (someone on hear striving for better sound) from someone that is happy with $20 or $80 earphones? I think in large part it is because the recreation of sound is important to them and they pay enough attention to hear a difference.  High end stuff to me is about the little things that really add to the realism and conveyance of the music while most people are content with hearing the music regardless of the quality. 

Human hearing can be very sensitive, which to me is proven by the ability for human echolocation.  If human hearing can detect reflections and timing of that magnitude, wouldn't it make sense to be able to hear things that would be (to my knowledge of current measurement equipment) to be unmeasurable?  How would you measure the micro detail within a recording at the speaker output of an analog signal?

 

I agree dynamic drivers burn in to a larger extent (dynamic drivers are all hand assembled to my knowledge while BA drivers are machine made) than BAs, but many of the same forces are at work with both.  That is my observations from my experience and knowledge.

post #1509 of 3830
Thread Starter 

I received the Hisoundaudio RoCoo BA today and have given it an initial listen and just wanted to mention that I think Hisoundaudio might have finally got it right for high sensitivity IEMs.  I liked the Hisound stuff for lower sensitivity dynamic driver IEMs and some headphones, but have not thought their products were a great match for my growing CIEM collection.  Hiss, lacking bass or dynamics, but the RoCoo BA doesn't have hiss with my JH16 or NT-6, doesn't lack bass (although it isn't a bass monster) and has dynamics.  The presentation is very 3D and more detailed than I remember the Hisound players.  I will evaluate it more as time goes, but for now I am impressed!

 

Here is a crappy picture:

P1020546.JPG

 

post #1510 of 3830

Joe, any thoughts on the Studio V? Curious to how it compares against Rocco BA.

post #1511 of 3830

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

 

I too get those questions too, but more often I get questions about how a CIEM compares with what people currently have or, one out of every maybe 10 questions is how something I have compares with the Miracle, lol.  I really should get one of those!

 

Please do! I love my miracles and would be delighted if you do a review of those customs. Quite a special CIEM in my opinion.

post #1512 of 3830
Interesting! Can't wait for your full impressions about the Rocoo BA, Joe!biggrin.gif
post #1513 of 3830
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryok95 View Post

Joe, any thoughts on the Studio V? Curious to how it compares against Rocco BA.

 

With BA CIEMs the Studio V sounded a bit flat and lacking dynamics, even with the BA firmware (the installed firmware sounded better to me).  And there was a good deal of hiss with many of mu CIEMs including the likes of the JH16, LS8, 5X, and still a bit of hiss with many of the lower sensitivity CIEMs.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cryok95 View Post

Please do! I love my miracles and would be delighted if you do a review of those customs. Quite a special CIEM in my opinion.

 

I have heard many good things about the Miracle, and then a few people that haven't liked it, but I do wonder how it would stack up.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kuroda Tsubasa View Post

Interesting! Can't wait for your full impressions about the Rocoo BA, Joe!biggrin.gif

 

Thanks.  It will probably take me several weeks, but I am very happy with the RoCoo BA!

post #1514 of 3830

i wonder how will a dynamic typed ciem sounds if paired with the rocoo BA

post #1515 of 3830

I've received studio-V recently and I will receive rocooBA in near futrue as well I hope to be able to chime in when I got my Merlins :)

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)