or Connect
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information) - Page 73

post #1081 of 4815



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Is the body of the instrument resonating in your ear the correct sound, or the preferred sound?  Is that what you think you would experience on stage or in the audience of a live performance?  Also, the FX700 and JH16 both have similar proportioned soundstages while just about every other CIEM has different shaped soundstages with more depth, giving a sense of space, image placement, and instrument separation that is different, making me feel it is closer to the real thing.  That alone helps me with the realism, and then decay is the next part as even when you have a faster decay but proper proportions, it just places a different focus on things vs. a thicker sound.

 

I have been thinking of getting some top tier universals for benchmarks, but I am not sure when/if I will pull the trigger.

This has been very specific to certain instruments, like stringed instruments for example. I can hear and imagine the resonating sounding board of a violin when portrayed in most classical music like Mozart's "Apollo Et Hyacinthus" better than my other iems. I can't say for all who have the FX700 of course, but it's interesting to hear.

 

Of course played by other aspects of sound (soundstage, depth, imaging, etc) , the FX700 can still be a contender.
 

 

post #1082 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 

The price is hefty, but I will not be skeptical until I hear them.  I am not sure how you can put a price on them like $750 and not the full price.  While the entry level AKG IEMs may not be great (they are old), AKG does make some very nice headphones and is well respected in the world of pro audio.  I am eager to hear them and see how they stack up...I have received enough requests for comparisons!



Ah! LOL, Well please allow me to explain my reasoning:

 

a full-tllt, top-of-the-line CIEM costs $1000-$1400  This (generally) involves, in terms of raw materials, 3 - 8 balanced armatures per IEM. In terms of labour, there's a significant amount of time spent modeling a customer's impressions, then creating a mould, pouring the acrylic, hand-fitting the armatures to the shell, etc. etc. (slightly different sequence in the case of silicone, but either way, it's a rather labour-intensive process. This labour represents a fairly significant chunk of the overall IEM cost.

 

Much of the above is not the case with the AKG K3003. That is not to say that they're not well made, but I'm simply pointing out that they're not as labour-intensive as traditional custom IEMs. Hence, I feel the price should reflect this. Sure, stainless steel may be marginally more expensive than acrylic, but CNC-produced in thousands, such tiny chunks of metal won't cost the earth. Maybe I'm off-target here (and I'm always happy to be politely corrected), but it seems to this onlooker that the cost of production of an AKG K3003 is probably less than the cost of production of a full-custom IEM. Hence my (not 100% serious) remark about them perhaps not justifying $1200 - $1500.

 

One thing I really will take on the chin, though, is that I now understand the inline iPod remote feature is not compulsory - apparently there are two versions of the K3003 depending on whether or not customers want this. This choice was not apparent in most of the promotional copy I'd read, across the internet.

 

I still fully anticipate the K3003 sounding gorgeous. I know AKG know what they're doing.

post #1083 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

 I am eager to hear them and see how they stack up...I have received enough requests for comparisons!



Heheh! Methinks you didn't need any requests in order to feel compelled to splash the ca$h on these babies! wink.gif

 

I can't say I blame you - if I had a big enough bank balance, I'd be buying customs and AKG 3003s at the rate of 3 pairs of IEMs a week!

 

Must earn more money... NEED more audiophilia-related paraphernalia! L3000.gifatsmile.gif

 

(P.S. I've done my research: http://www.audiophilia.com/features/aptest.htm)

post #1084 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingice10 View Post



 

This has been very specific to certain instruments, like stringed instruments for example. I can hear and imagine the resonating sounding board of a violin when portrayed in most classical music like Mozart's "Apollo Et Hyacinthus" better than my other iems. I can't say for all who have the FX700 of course, but it's interesting to hear.

 

Of course played by other aspects of sound (soundstage, depth, imaging, etc) , the FX700 can still be a contender.

does JH16 produce an overall better quality of sound compared to FX700? 

do you need to compare them side by side to hear the quality difference?
 

 

post #1085 of 4815

Hi Joe,

 

Any quick comments on 5-way vs T1 live! in terms of bass and musicality? I want deep and (more importantly) punchy bass, and silicones only. Looking for something fun to complement my JH13 :)

 

PS, edited to add... any idea if the new 5-way can take my JH13's twag?


Edited by jelt2359 - 1/30/12 at 8:34pm
post #1086 of 4815



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

does JH16 produce an overall better quality of sound compared to FX700? 

do you need to compare them side by side to hear the quality difference?
 

 


The JH16 is still the more technically proficient in terms of overall sound. If you hear the overall presentation of balance with the 2 iems, the JH16 wins over. The JH16 has quicker notes and cleaner overall sound. They handle every genre of music without mess. Also the layering, the spatial cues are better on the JH16. The only gripe I have with them was the smoothen highs and few timbre issues which is common to some BA iem.

 

Yes, that's what I did when I replied to you about my observation. I just plugged it my Iphone 3GS unamped (even without the CLAS) and you can immediately hear the difference.

post #1087 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by kingice10 View Post



 


The JH16 is still the more technically proficient in terms of overall sound. If you hear the overall presentation of balance with the 2 iems, the JH16 wins over. The JH16 has quicker notes and cleaner overall sound. They handle every genre of music without mess. Also the layering, the spatial cues are better on the JH16. The only gripe I have with them was the smoothen highs and few timbre issues which is common to some BA iem.

 

Yes, that's what I did when I replied to you about my observation. I just plugged it my Iphone 3GS unamped (even without the CLAS) and you can immediately hear the difference.


Thanks, I just want to confirm this before dishing out $1000 when I order the Rooth LS8. wink.gif Might be getting them in the summer.

 

post #1088 of 4815
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

I have most 320kps mp3 or m4a. Does FLAC make a difference with LS8? It definitely does not to my ears with the FX700 or Monster Turbine.

 

so how much difference is there with i.Fuzen HP-1 amp?

 

and does LS8 has significant bass quantity that FX700?


The more resolving a headphone is, the more FLAC matters, and it is more apparent with better sources.  For example, from my iPhone I can only rarely hear the difference while from the 801 it is much more apparent.  It is also dependent on the song as some have more detail, layering, texturing, spatial queues, etc. than others.  While I can often tell in direct comparison, I can also tell when I am casually listening and start focusing on the imperfections in a track that the high end CIEMs allow me to hear and realize it is a mp3.  But, then poorly mastered songs will still sound bad in FLAC.

 

The difference to me is significant enough to want to use the i.Fuzen if I have the choice.

 

I am not sure what you mean.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by kingice10 View Post

 

This has been very specific to certain instruments, like stringed instruments for example. I can hear and imagine the resonating sounding board of a violin when portrayed in most classical music like Mozart's "Apollo Et Hyacinthus" better than my other iems. I can't say for all who have the FX700 of course, but it's interesting to hear.

 

Of course played by other aspects of sound (soundstage, depth, imaging, etc) , the FX700 can still be a contender.


I have not heard the FX700 in too long, but some CIEMs can sound magical with stringed instruments, much better than I remember the FX700.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post

Ah! LOL, Well please allow me to explain my reasoning:

 

a full-tllt, top-of-the-line CIEM costs $1000-$1400  This (generally) involves, in terms of raw materials, 3 - 8 balanced armatures per IEM. In terms of labour, there's a significant amount of time spent modeling a customer's impressions, then creating a mould, pouring the acrylic, hand-fitting the armatures to the shell, etc. etc. (slightly different sequence in the case of silicone, but either way, it's a rather labour-intensive process. This labour represents a fairly significant chunk of the overall IEM cost.

 

Much of the above is not the case with the AKG K3003. That is not to say that they're not well made, but I'm simply pointing out that they're not as labour-intensive as traditional custom IEMs. Hence, I feel the price should reflect this. Sure, stainless steel may be marginally more expensive than acrylic, but CNC-produced in thousands, such tiny chunks of metal won't cost the earth. Maybe I'm off-target here (and I'm always happy to be politely corrected), but it seems to this onlooker that the cost of production of an AKG K3003 is probably less than the cost of production of a full-custom IEM. Hence my (not 100% serious) remark about them perhaps not justifying $1200 - $1500.

 

One thing I really will take on the chin, though, is that I now understand the inline iPod remote feature is not compulsory - apparently there are two versions of the K3003 depending on whether or not customers want this. This choice was not apparent in most of the promotional copy I'd read, across the internet.

 

I still fully anticipate the K3003 sounding gorgeous. I know AKG know what they're doing.


Yes, maybe, but then AKG probably has more overhead, and they also accept returns, and without a detachable cable, need to warranty cable breaks.  It is either a competitor or not.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mython View Post


Heheh! Methinks you didn't need any requests in order to feel compelled to splash the ca$h on these babies! wink.gif

 

I can't say I blame you - if I had a big enough bank balance, I'd be buying customs and AKG 3003s at the rate of 3 pairs of IEMs a week!

 

Must earn more money... NEED more audiophilia-related paraphernalia! L3000.gifatsmile.gif

 

(P.S. I've done my research: http://www.audiophilia.com/features/aptest.htm)


Those didn't look like mono blocks, more like 2 HiFiMan 801s!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

does JH16 produce an overall better quality of sound compared to FX700? 

do you need to compare them side by side to hear the quality difference?


Usually you need a side by side to really know where things stand, but it is also possible to deduce from the logic of if A is to B and B is to C, A will perform to C in a somewhat known way.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jelt2359 View Post

Hi Joe,

 

Any quick comments on 5-way vs T1 live! in terms of bass and musicality? I want deep and (more importantly) punchy bass, and silicones only. Looking for something fun to complement my JH13 :)

 

PS, edited to add... any idea if the new 5-way can take my JH13's twag?


I have been listening to the T1 Live! lately for review and have been really enjoying the T1.  With a source other than an iPhone/Clip it is very nice and has great bass, surprising detail, and clarity while providing a warm and musical, if slightly flat sound.  When I stuck the 5-way in my ears for the first time in a long time I was surprised by the additional layers within the music as well as the additional bass weight.  Don't get me wrong, the T1 Live! is not lacking, but the 5-way is just that good.  While the bass of the T1 Live! is punchy, the 5-way has more punch.  Both are on the neutral side, however, but both would be good compliments as they are not as analytical*.

 

If you would go with acrylic, the EM4 has very punchy bass and is fun; a great compliment for the JH13*!  

 

I will be getting my new 5-way in the next month or so and will know for sure then, but from what I know, yes, the JH13 TWag should fit.

 

* Based off my experience with the JH16 and reading about the JH13.

 

 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post

Thanks, I just want to confirm this before dishing out $1000 when I order the Rooth LS8. wink.gif Might be getting them in the summer.

 

Very understandable, that is a serious sum of cash for something you can't return or sell except at a large loss.

post #1089 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

The more resolving a headphone is, the more FLAC matters, and it is more apparent with better sources.  For example, from my iPhone I can only rarely hear the difference while from the 801 it is much more apparent.  It is also dependent on the song as some have more detail, layering, texturing, spatial queues, etc. than others.  While I can often tell in direct comparison, I can also tell when I am casually listening and start focusing on the imperfections in a track that the high end CIEMs allow me to hear and realize it is a mp3.  But, then poorly mastered songs will still sound bad in FLAC.

 

The difference to me is significant enough to want to use the i.Fuzen if I have the choice.

 

I am not sure what you mean.

You mentioned that LS8 is easy to drive, so isn't amp and no amp with i.Fuzenwill make a minimum difference on iphone?

 

I meant how does the bass quantity of LS8 and FX700 compare? I know FX700 has more, but how much more?
 

 

post #1090 of 4815
Thread Starter 

As I stated, the i.Fuzen changes the presentation, expanding the soundstage which in turn has a trickle down effect on the rest of the sound.  An amp isn't all about power, it is also about improving the signal path and amp circuitry vs. the internal amp in a device.

 

Good question about how much more bass.  If someone wants to send me a FX700 I can check.

post #1091 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

As I stated, the i.Fuzen changes the presentation, expanding the soundstage which in turn has a trickle down effect on the rest of the sound.  An amp isn't all about power, it is also about improving the signal path and amp circuitry vs. the internal amp in a device.

 

Good question about how much more bass.  If someone wants to send me a FX700 I can check.


hm, if there isn't a significant difference, then I will think about getting it.

 

the FX700 has as much bass as the MTPC is that helps.

For the bass of LS8, how about just roughly from your memories, the bass of LS8 compared to FX700.

 

and for the bass of LS8, is it neutral, slight enhancement, or slightly recessed?


Edited by Mini0510 - 1/31/12 at 4:45pm
post #1092 of 4815
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mini0510 View Post


hm, if there isn't a significant difference, then I will think about getting it.

 

the FX700 has as much bass as the MTPC is that helps.

For the bass of LS8, how about just roughly from your memories, the bass of LS8 compared to FX700.

 

and for the bass of LS8, is it neutral, slight enhancement, or slightly recessed?


The LS8 bass is enhanced (less than the JH16), but again, I can't give you an answer vs. the FX700 or Copper since I would need to A/B them to give an accurate answer.  The LS8 is warm and I will venture a guess that it is warmer than the FX700 but not as warm as the Copper.

 

post #1093 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post


The LS8 bass is enhanced (less than the JH16), but again, I can't give you an answer vs. the FX700 or Copper since I would need to A/B them to give an accurate answer.  The LS8 is warm and I will venture a guess that it is warmer than the FX700 but not as warm as the Copper.

 


thats good to hear. This might be the only custom that I will like. Since balance armature drivers aren't like dynamic drivers, but LS8 got the two super high drivers for the treble. I need the treble and bass enhancement similar to FX700 sound signature.

 

and does warm refer to decent amount of bass quantity?

 

post #1094 of 4815
Thread Starter 

Warmth refers to the amount of mid-bass and/or how much decay there is in those notes (thickness of the note).  The LS8 is warmer than the JH16, which is fairly similar in that there is a sort of V sound signature with enhanced bass and treble.  You can have plenty of bass and sub-bass without the warmth, which leads to a leaner sound, even though the IEM isn't bass light.  I can't recall exactly where the FX700 was as far as warmth, but I know that it isn't as warm as the Copper.

post #1095 of 4815
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Warmth refers to the amount of mid-bass and/or how much decay there is in those notes (thickness of the note).  The LS8 is warmer than the JH16, which is fairly similar in that there is a sort of V sound signature with enhanced bass and treble.  You can have plenty of bass and sub-bass without the warmth, which leads to a leaner sound, even though the IEM isn't bass light.  I can't recall exactly where the FX700 was as far as warmth, but I know that it isn't as warm as the Copper.


So If I like FX700's sound signature, LS8 is my only options for high end custom IEMs?

I actually don't mind the lean or warm sound. Im just looking for treble and bass enhancement. so V-shape sound signature.

 


Edited by Mini0510 - 2/1/12 at 9:08am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (Check first post for review links & information)