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Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (26 reviews: UM PP6 added... - Page 135

post #2011 of 3049
9/16/12 at 8:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

My second 5-way has more bass extension than my first one, but there is still a slight bit of roll off compared with the LCD-2, however I hear more detail and focus in the bass with the 5-way regardless of the source I use. 

Yes, SE-5 has a minor bass boost, that might be the reason. (we hear louder as better quality usually) It's not actually more detailed (slightly the contrary instead) when equalized. Psychoacoustics are a pain when comparing any combination of IEMs and headphones on quality alone.


Edited by AstralStorm - 9/16/12 at 9:08pm
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post #2012 of 3049
9/17/12 at 4:11pm

Anyone have an opinion of the ES5?  Reading the impressions, it sounds like what I'm looking for + it's US based.

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post #2013 of 3049
9/17/12 at 9:31pm
Thread Starter 

Alclair Reference is now $399, down from $499.  I thought it was a good deal at $499.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

 

Thanks, I sent an email off to SE this morning; found a package forwarding service that should work.  =]  I have to get impressions & I'll wait to hear back from SE on whether photos & measurements would work, or whether they need the impressions shipped in to determine whether size will be an issue.  Crossing my fingers that it won't.  

 

Looking forward to hearing updates...

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by AstralStorm View Post

Yes, SE-5 has a minor bass boost, that might be the reason. (we hear louder as better quality usually) It's not actually more detailed (slightly the contrary instead) when equalized. Psychoacoustics are a pain when comparing any combination of IEMs and headphones on quality alone.

 

IMO, it would be near impossible for me to EQ everything and then review them.  Plus, the EQs I have used usually leave something to be desired in the SQ department, often leading to a less natural sound to my ears.  I understand that different sound signatures/frequency responses will result in different psychoacoustics and take that into account for my reviews, and for the LCD-2, the dynamics are very dependent on the volume level.  At lower volumes, which I prefer to listen at, the LCD-2 is lacking in both detail and dynamics compared with my 5-way.  I am not sure what version of the LCD-2 you have, mine is V1, and if your fit is like my original, I can see some differences as my longer canal version has more instrument detail.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

Anyone have an opinion of the ES5?  Reading the impressions, it sounds like what I'm looking for + it's US based.

 

There is an ES5 thread and like just about everything else, there are positive and negative posts about the ES5.  What are you looking for?  Warm and organic?

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post #2014 of 3049
9/17/12 at 9:50pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by average_joe View Post

Alclair Reference is now $399, down from $499.  I thought it was a good deal at $499.

 

 

Looking forward to hearing updates...

 

 

IMO, it would be near impossible for me to EQ everything and then review them.  Plus, the EQs I have used usually leave something to be desired in the SQ department, often leading to a less natural sound to my ears.  I understand that different sound signatures/frequency responses will result in different psychoacoustics and take that into account for my reviews, and for the LCD-2, the dynamics are very dependent on the volume level.  At lower volumes, which I prefer to listen at, the LCD-2 is lacking in both detail and dynamics compared with my 5-way.  I am not sure what version of the LCD-2 you have, mine is V1, and if your fit is like my original, I can see some differences as my longer canal version has more instrument detail.

 

 

There is an ES5 thread and like just about everything else, there are positive and negative posts about the ES5.  What are you looking for?  Warm and organic?

 

Grzegorz replied to me.  Apparently they are moving shop so production will be delayed a few weeks and he forewarns that the SE 5-way has quite a turnaround as it is, so it will probably be some time before I can get a 5-way in my hands, if at all.  The good news is he can do an initial assessment on fit by looking at photographs.

 

I am definitely looking for something warm and organic, with proper tonal weight.  I find tonal weight really helps recreate proper timbre in "heavy" instruments.  Piano keys, cello's playing low, etc.  It really bothers me when those instruments come off sounding thin and brittle.  This is why I'm after a warmish sound.  

 

Been reading the ES5 thread and it's confusing to say the least.  A lot of comparisons are made to the LCD-2, probably because of a similar tonal tilt, but from what I read, the LCD-2 trumps the ES5 in separation and a few other technical areas.  From where I'm standing, that sounds odd because the LCD-2 is probably one of the lesser phones I've owned in terms of technical ability.  I mean they're good, but I feel the HD800 and HE-6 are on another level yet in the right rigs, and if I can't match simple things like detail, extension and separation with a CIEM like the ES5, I worry that I will regret shifting away from full-size cans.

 

On the other hand there are so many variables to account for.  Fit.  The chains that these folks are using.  People with full-size cans tend to have better ancillary gear.  Who knows.

 

Perhaps the SE 5-way is more of a match to the LCD-2 or better phones.  But they both use the same technology, correct?  Identical # of drivers, so the only difference between the two might be how they're tuned.  How much better could it be?  Or perhaps I'm oversimplifying.

 

To be clear, I don't expect CIEMs to give me a presentation similar to full-size phones, but there are certain things I feel I can expect, like speed/detail retrieval/separation/extension.

 

Sorry for the long post, just thinking out loud.  Btw, looking back through this thread over the past few days I'm astonished at how much work you have put in.  I'm sure it was fun.  We're all indebted to this effort though.  Thanks.

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post #2015 of 3049
9/18/12 at 11:19pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by sphinxvc View Post

 

Grzegorz replied to me.  Apparently they are moving shop so production will be delayed a few weeks and he forewarns that the SE 5-way has quite a turnaround as it is, so it will probably be some time before I can get a 5-way in my hands, if at all.  The good news is he can do an initial assessment on fit by looking at photographs.

 

I am definitely looking for something warm and organic, with proper tonal weight.  I find tonal weight really helps recreate proper timbre in "heavy" instruments.  Piano keys, cello's playing low, etc.  It really bothers me when those instruments come off sounding thin and brittle.  This is why I'm after a warmish sound.  

 

Been reading the ES5 thread and it's confusing to say the least.  A lot of comparisons are made to the LCD-2, probably because of a similar tonal tilt, but from what I read, the LCD-2 trumps the ES5 in separation and a few other technical areas.  From where I'm standing, that sounds odd because the LCD-2 is probably one of the lesser phones I've owned in terms of technical ability.  I mean they're good, but I feel the HD800 and HE-6 are on another level yet in the right rigs, and if I can't match simple things like detail, extension and separation with a CIEM like the ES5, I worry that I will regret shifting away from full-size cans.

 

On the other hand there are so many variables to account for.  Fit.  The chains that these folks are using.  People with full-size cans tend to have better ancillary gear.  Who knows.

 

Perhaps the SE 5-way is more of a match to the LCD-2 or better phones.  But they both use the same technology, correct?  Identical # of drivers, so the only difference between the two might be how they're tuned.  How much better could it be?  Or perhaps I'm oversimplifying.

 

To be clear, I don't expect CIEMs to give me a presentation similar to full-size phones, but there are certain things I feel I can expect, like speed/detail retrieval/separation/extension.

 

Sorry for the long post, just thinking out loud.  Btw, looking back through this thread over the past few days I'm astonished at how much work you have put in.  I'm sure it was fun.  We're all indebted to this effort though.  Thanks.

 

From my experience with Westone universals, they have nice imaging but the soundstage size is not large, but I have heard the ES5 is very coherent and has come great qualities.  For warm and organic, your choices are:

5-way

8.A

ES5

EM4

EM6

T1 Live! (less warm)

DC4

i9pro

 

The differences between the 5-way and ES5 are many including the shell material, which I do think makes a difference, 3-way vs. 5-way crossovers, all of the 5-way drivers are individual drive units, which Grzegorz says makes a difference, and 5 sound tubes vs. a 2 (or is it 3) to 1 configuration.  

 

Some aspects of high end CIEMs are better than headphones and vice versa to my ears.  BA drivers generally don't lack speed and detail retrieval, and some are better than others at separation and extension.

 

And thanks, I am happy when people can benefit from my thread!

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post #2016 of 3049
9/19/12 at 3:31am

I found that warm and organic are orthogonal. Warm/dark is frequency response dependent, organic/smooth/heavy is decay dependent. (step, square wave and impulse response)

SE-5 happens to score slightly on warm, quite a bit on dark and very high on the organic all around the range with a minor exception of slightly too smooth lower mids.

 

I'm pretty sure SE-5 uses different drivers and crossover points than ES5, material differences notwithstanding. (Caveat emptor: I haven't heard ES5 - but I strongly suspect the sound is similar to Westone 4 which I have heard.)

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post #2017 of 3049
9/20/12 at 7:29am

Hmm, let's try asking again after the new CIEM.

 

The signature I'm looking for is relatively close to Beyerdynamic T70p.

Any matches?

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post #2018 of 3049
9/21/12 at 1:48am

Hello all,

 

Average Joe, i've read your feedback on the Hidition NT-6 Pro. You said it is in your top 3 Custom IEM, what are the other 2 ?

How would you compare it to the Earsonics EM4 and EM6 ?

 

Thanks in advance.
 

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post #2019 of 3049
9/21/12 at 3:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonim View Post

Hello all,

 

Average Joe, i've read your feedback on the Hidition NT-6 Pro. You said it is in your top 3 Custom IEM, what are the other 2 ?

How would you compare it to the Earsonics EM4 and EM6 ?

 

Thanks in advance.
 

I believe those 2 are NT6 and 5 waywink.gif

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post #2020 of 3049
9/21/12 at 6:30am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by anonim View Post

Hello all,

 

Average Joe, i've read your feedback on the Hidition NT-6 Pro. You said it is in your top 3 Custom IEM, what are the other 2 ?

How would you compare it to the Earsonics EM4 and EM6 ?

 

Thanks in advance.
 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tupac0306 View Post

I believe those 2 are NT6 and 5 waywink.gif

 

Yes.  However, I want to make sure it is understood that the ranking is in technical performance, meaning how well they perform in certain non-sound signature ways such as transparency, coherence, speed, note attack/decay, detail levels, dynamic range, imaging, presentation size and proportion, etc.  I firmly believe people should buy based on their sound signature preferences.  If you want organic and warm, the Hidition products aren't for you, but something like the EM4, 8.A, T1 Live!, SA-43, and 5-way will fall into that category.  The LS8 is warm and liquid, but less organic and closer to analytical, for example, so it might be good, but maybe not.

 

How do those products compare with the EM4 and EM6?  You can read my most recent reviews to see how the CIEMs compare.  For example, the NT-6 pro comparison is not in the EM4 review, but it is in the NT-6 pro review since I did that one after.  The one exception is the 5-way, which I used for comparison with my old 5-way prior to receiving the new 5-way, which sounds different (as described in my 5-way review).

 

I haven't heard the EM6, but reports are that it is better than the EM4, and from a technical performance standpoint the EM4 is a small step below the three mentioned above and closer to others such as the LS8, 8.A and SA-43.

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post #2021 of 3049
9/22/12 at 5:26am

Well got my mi3's back today.  I know I've said this before but it genuinely feels this time as though it might at last be sorted out.  The left feels very different now when I put it in. Before it really felt like it was digging in under the flap after a few minutes, now I don't get that feeling.  If it is sorted I might well be getting at least a set of tips from minerva for my westones (which ironically would involve sending my mi's back again so they have an accurate base model!).  Though I am tempted by those cosmic ears base models to use at work.  If anything happened to the mi's now after getting it sorted I think I'd cry! 

 

Oh and in other news looks like I might be drawing a line under my fisher situation in a positive light (though sadly the iems themselves still don't fit).

 

Anyone thinking of going with either fisher hearing (inearz) or minerva just go for it, shouldn't have any problems with either of them.


Cheers

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post #2022 of 3049
9/22/12 at 7:58am

 

 

 

 

 

The new Magnum album "On the thirteenth Day" sounds pretty damn good on these!

 

Cheers

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post #2023 of 3049
9/23/12 at 12:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidcotton View Post

 

The new Magnum album "On the thirteenth Day" sounds pretty damn good on these!

 

Too bad "these" won't be available before 2015. tongue.gif

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post #2024 of 3049
9/23/12 at 8:10am

Yeah I tried to buy a pair yesterday, got in my car...realized the flux capacitor needed a recharge.  oh well, better luck next time.

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post #2025 of 3049
9/23/12 at 9:03am

Where did I put that gaffer tape?  Need it to stop my sides from splitting tongue_smile.gif So the camera time wasn't set properly.
 

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Head-Fi.org › Forums › Equipment Forums › Portable Headphones, Earphones and In-Ear Monitors › Multi-Custom In-Ear Monitor Review, Resource, Mfg List & Discussion (26 reviews: UM PP6 added 3/12/13)