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Colorfly CK4, finally some competition for the HifiMan 60X ? - Page 4

post #46 of 268


Just wondering, how did the Archos fare against the 601? :p Thanks.  

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAFA View Post

I bough the HM-601 somewhere around December/January and in the middle of January I bought the Archos 32. After that i promissed myself not to buy anything till at least april, but I saw the CK4... this is addiction.  

post #47 of 268
Thread Starter 

@stozzer123 : I was contemplating the same thing, but the german distributor gave more info in the past, so it's probably better like this. Thanks for the effort and keep us updated on the result.

 


@shigzeo and RAFA : You've been going a bit further the scope of the topic, but since we probably won't get any new info before the actual launch, we have some space to go a bit off-topic.


 

First thank you for the RMAA Shigzeo, I'm always looking forward to reading your reviews and measurement tests. I hope your arm gets better fast.


 

The RMAA thing is definitely a useful tool, but as any tool it needs to be used in a proper way. Here I'll beg to differ from you shigzeo, as even if anybody "can" do some RMAA tests, that doesn't mean they understand the scientific background. That means it's very easy to just spit out some numbers and create confusion between tests with different hardware and settings. I think that's the last thing we need at the moment given that, for some here, the idea alone of measuring what we hear is meaningless. I've read too many times the moto "if it measures bad and sounds good, then you're measuring the wrong thing" just written to shut down the debate about measurement. In some way it's absolutely true that one frequency response test measurement doesn't say all, but when you have a group of tests you can actually cover quite some ground. We probably just need to get some additional tests to explain some things. At least I'm not ready to give up on science just yet, because a group of guys disagree with measurements.


 

One thing that I've noticed in the test made by Sonove that I've linked before (under 16Ohm dummy load), is the capability of the Hifiman 801 and 602 (probably 601 too actually), to suppress most if not any ringing (I think that's the term, correct me if I'm wrong) in the impulse response. Compared to an iphone 3GS the graph is quite clear. I was wondering if that could explain all the fuss about the HifiMan's sound quality debate, even with the roll-off. Shigzeo's RMAA for the 601 adds another hint by showing how the Stereo Crosstalk stays quite flat, unlike the T51/S:Flo2. This sort of measurement/review results make more sense to me than just an "it just sounds good" comment, even out of the review of a trusted Head-fi member. But I guess not everyone is interested in understanding the underlying principles, and that's understandable.


 

Now I'll unfortunately have to agree with your comments on the actual state of the pseudo-audiophile market. It's a shame to see that the only real improvements in the last years have been coming solely from China. Not simply because it's China of course, but because the market has it's own way to work and because standardization is still a far dream over there. It's already difficult to get these players out of China, but given the few customers abroad there's just no way they actually listen to us. At least with big companies you see consistency and standard across a product's life, most of the time based on measurement but also incremental evolution. Actually in both cases the number of clients is driving the companies, but China has more a try and see attitude that leads them to get lucky once in a while. Problem is, when they get lucky it's not always because they were looking for it. So even if Teclast wanted to create a successor to the T51/S:Flo2, they wouldn't necessarily get it right, or even in the way you would like to have it. With a big western company, you'll see slow improvements only.  


Edited by frenchbat - 2/28/11 at 6:10pm
post #48 of 268

Frenchbat - I think that ringing may contribute to some, but the iPods I have actually don't ring - or ring very little. It is possible they ring more than the 601, but on square waves, the ringing is similar or less. Some of that ringing is probably not bad sounding, as many players I've seen that ring, are noted as good-sounding by many owners. 

 

 

post #49 of 268
Thread Starter 


Thank you for clearing that up for me Shigzeo. In any case there's obviously more than one parameter influencing the final sound quality. The search goes on wink_face.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by shigzeo View Post

Frenchbat - I think that ringing may contribute to some, but the iPods I have actually don't ring - or ring very little. It is possible they ring more than the 601, but on square waves, the ringing is similar or less. Some of that ringing is probably not bad sounding, as many players I've seen that ring, are noted as good-sounding by many owners. 

 

 



 

post #50 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by RAFA View Post




Thank you for this information gathering :) The opamp, next to the DAC is very important how the whole thing will sound. I am kind of very curious about this DAP and its new opamp.

 




I haven't seen much hype about it, at least not in this forum,but potential is there. There are not many people owning its bigger brother, the C4, so I do not expect much love for this one too. In the headfonia review, it is stated, that the C4 has a nice UI. Maybe this is a sign that we will get a nice ui for the CK4 too.

 

Yes the UI of the s:flo2 is somehow not good, but as an owner of the HM-601, I have not experienced any of these problems.

 

 

 

 

 


yeah...what version of the hm-601 do you own?  I've read that its mostly with the 8gb version that are having the problem; especially with the internal memory.   I just wished that the s:flo2 was button instead of that horrid touch UI.... would have made a great dap if they did.

 

post #51 of 268
Thread Starter 

Hi all,

 

I've been trying to read the chinese web with my friend google, and it seems like the difference between the two versions of CK4 would be done via the Line Out. Let's take this as a rumor rather than a fact, but that sounds coherent enough. 

 

So according to what I've read, the higher version LO would use the same amp chip as the C4, while the lower version would use a different one (the C4R I've read elsewhere). It also seems like the Opamp and the capacitors could be different. That would result in a lower output capability for the cheaper version.

 

And RAFA, you're not the one complaining about the delay biggrin.gif The chinese too are complaining ! Well anyway, they're now talking of mid-March. We'll know soon if that was realistic.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.erji.com%2Fread.php%3Ftid%3D999246&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

post #52 of 268


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TekeRugburn View Post




yeah...what version of the hm-601 do you own?  I've read that its mostly with the 8gb version that are having the problem; especially with the internal memory.   I just wished that the s:flo2 was button instead of that horrid touch UI.... would have made a great dap if they did.

 


I have a 8gb version. To be honest, I did not use the internal memory much. I just switch the sd card between my devices. Recently I have problems with the internal memory of my T51...

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post

Hi all,

 

I've been trying to read the chinese web with my friend google, and it seems like the difference between the two versions of CK4 would be done via the Line Out. Let's take this as a rumor rather than a fact, but that sounds coherent enough. 

 

So according to what I've read, the higher version LO would use the same amp chip as the C4, while the lower version would use a different one (the C4R I've read elsewhere). It also seems like the Opamp and the capacitors could be different. That would result in a lower output capability for the cheaper version.

 

And RAFA, you're not the one complaining about the delay biggrin.gif The chinese too are complaining ! Well anyway, they're now talking of mid-March. We'll know soon if that was realistic.

 

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fbbs.erji.com%2Fread.php%3Ftid%3D999246&sl=zh-CN&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8



Thanks again for the info. I am looking forward to this better version and also hope that the price gap is not that big. Mid-march is ok to me :)

post #53 of 268

It is listed on taobao. The 8gb version goes from 799 rmb. NO sign of the 16gb version. Here is the Link: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9424427690

post #54 of 268
Thread Starter 


Great find RAFA ! We get some more tidbits, like the screen size etc ... I'll update the first post with the new info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RAFA View Post

It is listed on taobao. The 8gb version goes from 799 rmb. NO sign of the 16gb version. Here is the Link: http://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=9424427690



 

post #55 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post


Great find RAFA ! We get some more tidbits, like the screen size etc ... I'll update the first post with the new info.



 


A little more and you have a WIKI-page going on. atsmile.gif

 

post #56 of 268
Thread Starter 

biggrin.gif Almost. I'm waiting for the circuit diagrams and then I'll post it on Rockbox tongue_smile.gif

 

Finally looks like you won't have to wait too much, however it's difficult to know if Taobao actually has some stock.

post #57 of 268
Quote:
Originally Posted by frenchbat View Post

biggrin.gif Almost. I'm waiting for the circuit diagrams and then I'll post it on Rockbox tongue_smile.gif

 

Finally looks like you won't have to wait too much, however it's difficult to know if Taobao actually has some stock.


Haha, thats funny, I was already searching for the processor. I do not believe it i a Rockchip processor...

 

Yeah it is difficult to distinguish. I think it is preorder or stock available could be 995 pieces.

 

post #58 of 268

Looking at the taobao, is the jitter <5 or 100?  Says one in one place and 100 in two others.  Colorfly's site says the jitter for the c4 is <5, so i wonder if the the <5 comment on the c4k listing is a mistake and the more prominently displayed <100ps is the true numberfor the ck4.  Any ideas?  Perhaps this is one of the ways they managed to cut the price so much? 

And, forgive my ignorance, but what is "acceptable" or perhaps, "impressively low" jitter?

 

Either way, hopefully this means it will turn up at my local shop very soon after march 8th and I can pick one up.  The 8gig price seems to hint the 16gb player will come in at the rumored 1000 price so I'd gladly take a gamble provided the UI isn't infuriating (and hopefully I can demo it for a few minutes at least).  Though, sadly, I wouldn't be able to give comparisons to anything but a zune hd, zune and a rockboxed clip.. 

post #59 of 268
Thread Starter 

Hi Coatze, thanks for chiming in. That's the first time I hear about 100ps for the jitter. Theoretically it's supposed to be the same as the C4, hence less than 5, but we haven't seen anything conclusive for the CK4.

 

Since you seem to read Chinese language, maybe you could give us a hand with the info biggrin.gif. Do you know from the page if the CK4 listed on Taobao is the high or the low version ? and if there is any other info that we haven't picked up yet ?

 

Anyway at this point any first hand info is good, so if you have the opportunity to play a bit with the player, please come back to give us your comments.

 

Cheers.

 

post #60 of 268

 

Honestly, I was letting google chrome's translations do all of the heavy lifting, and occasionally checking the original to confirm/see what the hell is going on.  Sadly, by Chinese standards I am still "illiterate" and a lot of the tech jargon creates some really.. strange transliterations, even when I know the characters.    

 

But, I did dig a little deeper.  Honestly, I think google translate manages to skim up the useful bits, but digging through the original as best as I can, here's what I got that wasn't clear via google....  Please don't quote me on any of this (the above paragraph should be a strong enough warning...) but, if RAFA's descriptions of the versions are accurate, this should be the high end version. The site says it uses the same DAC chip, the CS4398, as the C4, and so the LO quality should be up to...now if I am following this right....the expectations generated by praise the line out on the c4 has received.  Either way, I'm pretty darn sure it says it is the same DAC chip heh.

 

It does go on to say that it could serve as a  24/192 source for a desktop setup... so it sounds like they are pretty proud of it.  Kind of leads me to believe that this can't be the wimpy LO version RAFA mentions.   

 

Also, free Audio technica c770s with preorder! Couldn't find this model on the USA site, but the chinese audio technica site had them. look pretty darn junky... are they sold in the states/elsewhere?

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