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Stax Sigma wood mesh housing? - Page 5

post #61 of 107
Thread Starter 

I finally received my pair of 407s today. Sadly yesterday I fumbled one of my Lambda Signature drivers and tore the dustcover really bad but the other driver had a small hole in it. They never sounded good compared to my other pair

so now I will leave my good pair alone. I would take the Lambda Signatures over the 407's. My hearings not to good today after flushing ear out but the 407s treble is harsh and everything seems forward. There is more punch in the bass

but does not seem as detailed. It may have a lot to do with the much tighter clamping on the head of the 407s. The Signatures were just makes all songs more pleasant good recordings bad recordings everything just sounds good. 407's

not so much but maybe they just need time. Something they are not going to get with me as Lambdas. Here is a couple pictures some of you are going to find very interesting.





post #62 of 107

Interesting. I couldn't sell my lambda sigs fast enough after getting my 407s. But as they say, everybody's ears are different. The sigs were more comfortable though, but hat's the only advantage. The 407's are superior in every way.....and by a mile imo.

post #63 of 107
Thread Starter 

Sounds like your Lambda Signatures may have had some major problems. Well they are almost 25 years old. I have had 2 pairs and one pair did suck and was in mint condition. They sounded dull and once I went back to the older rougher pair

of Signatures it was like wow what an instant improvement. I think something must have been wrong with them when you say they are superior by a mile. Maybe my 2nd hand 407's still needed some time to break in.

post #64 of 107

No, they were mint. I didn't say I didn't like them. I loved them. I preferred them to lambda normal, pro, hd800, T1, d7000, novas, He 5. They sounded great. The sigs have a couple of flaws. If you research them here you will find similar impressions about the flaws they do have. For example the upper midrange etch, the slightly boomy bass, and tilted treble. I also used three different amps with them. Just because I prefer the 407s and you prefer the sigs doesn't mean something was wrong with mine. The mids, treble, and bass is much better and I'm not the only one who thinks so. In fact you are the only one who I have encountered who prefers them over the 407s. And that's fine. But I'm not going to say something is wrong with your 407 because you like the sigs better. IMO and the 407s are on another playing field than the sigs. They have non of the flaws with a much more balanced sound.

post #65 of 107
Thread Starter 

Sounds like my 407's just need to break in then if all goes well. Here is a couple pics of the super seven sigma project so far lol.





post #66 of 107

Nice work. It could be you just prefer the sigs. But the 407s does get better with break in, but the overall sound signature remains the same. Bass gets tighter and deeper, and the highs does smooth out a bit. But If you prefer the sigs to them out of the box, I really don't see that changing with burn in.

post #67 of 107

The Lambdas I have tried sounded considerably better, less upper midrange harshness and wider soundfield,  when the back foam was removed. Since you have opened up the 407's you might want to try this out.  There is no back foam with the Sigmas.

post #68 of 107

The 407s don't have this. Neither does the sigs. They stop putting the foam or "mineral wool" in the back starting with the lambda sigs. But I agree, removing the foam in the older lambdas did yield positive results.

post #69 of 107
Thread Starter 

The back foam is as thin and porous as it could get but maybe it would help. I notice on my Sig's the foam has holes in it now. So maybe it helps.  Removing the cloth ovals in front of the drivers was a big improvement.  They are done as Lambdas

in a day or two they will be like Sigmas and there is no going back. Can't predict how they will sound in the Sigma type housing because there is no seal and they get to move more freely. The mineral wool is acting like the foam.

I have read all up on the Sig's etch I have not really noticed it much but the 407's I found very harsh in the upper midrange. I am glad to hear the bass will tighten up. My Lambda Sig's are probably just considered warn out as in

the dust covers are all stretched  but it sure makes music effortless open sounding no matter what type of music is playing.

post #70 of 107

What's in the sigs and newer lambda is basically a dust protector. The older lambdas used to have foam(a lot of it). It would deteriorate over time and could be quiet messy. But many people preferred them without the foam which eventually led to stax doing away with it altogether. So now the back housing only have a thin sheet to protect dust. It's acoustically transparent and doesn't affect the sound. At least it doesn't suppose to.

post #71 of 107
Thread Starter 

I can touch them up later if they sound decent. The hot glue looks really bad but it is just holding the front grill on. The sound was pretty bad to start with it is changing though. I put older style Lambda pads on and they feel and sounds better. The 3 dimensional sound is coming to life.







Edited by jaycalgary - 7/5/11 at 2:03pm
post #72 of 107
Thread Starter 

I have been doing a good amount of experimenting with of mineral wool. The drivers need a certain amount of mineral wool because of how the drivers are tuned. The lambda pro drivers also sounded boomy before the mineral wool but not as much as the 407's. Too little mineral wool and this boom comes though and sounds thin with hot treble. Too much mineral wool there is nice bass weight but sounds flat and the vocals sound congested. I was bouncing back and forth between too much and too little mineral wool and could not find a nice in between.


I think I need to rebuild the mesh cage. Sure is not going to be fun and quite risky but the mesh I used has too much vibration.








Edited by jaycalgary - 7/13/11 at 12:44am
post #73 of 107
Thread Starter 

I was  lucky in a way because the Lepage Epoxy Steel did not bond as nearly as well as expected. I really think I mixed the 2 parts together fairly well especially since it hardens in 5 min. In a lot of areas it was rubbery and not hard hard as I expected. This time I am going back to using Lepage Marine Epoxy that I used on the last project. It takes 2 hours but it gets hard hard. I am thinking of bonding the aluminum plate to the driver with contact cement and marine epoxy where the 2 aluminum plates meet. The rest is fill all the wholes where the mesh and aluminum meet with marine epoxy using a toothpick. This mesh is strong and really doubt there will be any noticeable vibration.  I never had the aluminum plate behind the driver before but I think it will help

with strength and quiet down the vibrations from the plastic housing. It is a strong tool type plastic but it ha a boomy sound if you tap the driver on its own. Maybe because the driver plates inside can move a bit.

Here is a couple pics.




post #74 of 107


It's curious that your experimental phones could sound boomy in the bass with no mineral wool in the enclosure (if I follow you correctly).  When I  ran a set of Lambda Novas, holding them in the position of the Sigma drivers, but with no enclosure. they just sounded bassless.  Surely your enclosure is acoustically transparent such that it would not affect the sound without some mineral wool  or other material in  the enclosure.


On a related track, when I sealed the enclosure of  my Sigma/404 with duct tape it definitely became boomy. (It already had mineral wool).  From this I determined that you had to get some substance on the encosure in order to get any bass but a more or less air-tight enclosure, such as with duct tape, was too solid, i.e. the enclosure needed some amount of transparency such as with the mineral wool.  The trick was to determine just how much mineral wool to use, and/or how tightly to pack it.

Edited by edstrelow - 7/19/11 at 12:45am
post #75 of 107
Thread Starter 

Jut the driver with no mineral wool there is no deep bass but a better word would probably be hollow rather than boomy or a hollow boomy sound. The 407 is different how the driver is in a plastic case with a flimsy aluminum cover and compared to the older glued drivers is not as solid. The drivers are fairly heavy. No doubt they need mineral wool and it may vary from driver model to driver model how much is best but it sure is easy to change the sound with more or less.

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