Sansa Clip+ Review With Detailed Measurements - Page 2

That was my assumption, too, but I was even more impressed that the already very quiet background of the touch 2G has been improved on. 

Given that by reading nwavguy reviews i came across a critical matter that i did not know about (the difficulties that multidriver ba iems pose -frequency response wise- for amps -specially when amps have some output impedance) i am driving some listening tests with my 2009 iPod Classic and 2009 iPhone 3GS via headphone out and via lod + ibasso T3.

I'm doing this because i do my main listening through Shure SE530 (3 ba's -and 1 crossover i guess for a 2 way network-)

I'm almost sure by now that when the iBasso t3 comes into the equation on both idevices i notice an increased upper mid/lower treble response. The bass quantity is quite similar but with an improved resolution. Thus my guessing is that both 2009 iPod Classic and iPhone 3GS headphones out struggle  just a little bit on the upper mid region when driving a Shure SE530 that is.

The most funny thing is that i think that on badly mastered records (Almost any pop/rock album released on the 21th century) my ears like more the "flawed" response of the headphone out since i find it bit more forgiving (Warmer?). However on a properly tracked, mixed and mastered album the LOD+iBasso T3 combo really pays off.

This is common knowledge in a lot of places, but for some reason, the portable forum in particular, and HF in general, has never caught onto this, no matter how 'experienced' the ears.

I concur that's why i'am kind of shocked.

You can spend thousand of dollars on state of the art multidriver ba's capable of stunning accuracy but if you pair it with the wrong player what reach your eardrums might be a heavily distorted sound - frequency wise - (I'm calling distortion to the random outcome of the interaction between the erratic iem resistance and the one of the amp output).

Honestly when i listen to the SE530 amped through T3 i would be hard pressed to tell that the treble is severely rolled off (As is the official truth in headfi)... but when i do listen to the SE530 unamped (Specially with the iPhone 3GS) i would call its treble recessed without a blink.

The point i'm trying to get across is that it is of paramount importance knowing some technical details as the impedance bridging that DAP+Armatures bring to the table. And that's when people like you or nwavguy or Yuric are really game changers. For me at least.

That''s really nice man. Education is always welcome. I'll keep lurking at your blog. Thanks

I really appreciate your post! Such a good read and you have cleared up alot of information! I love my clip+! It just seems so viable over something like my bulky iphone. Sansa really needs to pick up the game and produce another winner like the clip+, double the battery life and give us 32gb of onboard memory with a SD slot ;) Im dreaming i know!

Thanks again! Double thumbs up!

Nice Review..I've been looking for a cheap mp3 player for when I work out and this is definitely on the top of my list

Tonight I noticed something interesting while listening with my Clip+ -> iBasso PB1 -> HD 600.  I have the Clip+ set to maximum volume into the PB1, with Rockbox installed and all processing off.

At the end of Even In My Dreams by Afro Celt Sound System, I noticed some pretty bad distortion that I had never heard before.  Well, I compared my LAME V0 rip to the FLAC, and it's in both of them.  I then checked the waveform, and nope, no clipping (it sounds a bit similar to the clipping you get from underpowering an Infinity EMIT tweeter).

Then I tested it on both my uDAC and my Thinkpad's line out as well (both into the PB1) - it was still present, but very much attenuated.

Well, figuring the problem had to be with the Clip+, I tried it again, turning down the volume a few notches - the distortion was down to about the same level as the uDAC and my TP's line out.  Even one notch down from max reduces it; I haven't been able to tell how much of a further improvement (if at all) turning it down more is.  But if you compare the Clip+ at max volume to one notch down, it's an easily noticeable difference - even easier than the 320 kbps mp3 killer samples I've heard.

I loaded a 20 second clip with the distortion here.

It should be audible at...

Give it a whirl yourself - will not be easy to ABX it since it's a volume thing (I know this isn't the Sound Science backwater but this sort of thread makes it fitting), but if you try (outputting to an external amp) it it should be really obvious if your Clip+ performs the same as mine.

I don't know exactly what's going on - there's nothing at 0 dB and no clipping in the file, but perhaps the output is clipping anyway in the the PB1 despite NwAvGuy's measurements.  Now, I don't know the PB1's exact input impedance but I think it's safe to assume that it's high... so that means the Clip+ shouldn't be current clipping.  Perhaps it is voltage clipping - I don't know, I don't have the equipment to test it.  Perhaps someone else can, if it's not just my clip that has this problem.

But it would definitely be interesting if others give a listen to this.

And for now, I'd recommend running your Clip+ at at least one notch down from the maximum volume if you are using it as a line out to an amplifier.

0db is the real max volume, any higher than that is due to using Rockbox which increases the maximum volume. They warn you that clipping might occur when using the additional volume higher than 0db.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlackbeardBen 

snip

Quote:

Originally Posted by aZn_plyR 

0db is the real max volume, any higher than that is due to using Rockbox which increases the maximum volume. They warn you that clipping might occur when using the additional volume higher than 0db.
 

Problem solved...  So it was due to my lack of understanding of Rockbox's volume interface.  I thought the exclamation point on the volume bar was perhaps a warning to users to not listen too loud with earbuds...  Well, I guess it was a warning, just not the one I was expecting!

So above 0 dB is digitally compressed then?  Interesting.

Thanks!

Yes, Rockbox defines 0dB as the maximum any player's hardware can handle, then gives an additional 6dB to play with. Might be useful for really quiet tracks, but I'd rather see this dB-boost feature being optional, not enabled by default.