Sansa e200 v.1 versus Sansa Clip+ (my opinion)

For what it's worth, I agree the Clip+ seems like a cheap, light, plastic toy. And to look at it, or pick it up and play with it, you'd never guess it could perform like it does. But, trust me, it might be that "cheap n' light" thing that's making the bigger, heavier, more expensive e-series seem to sound better to you.

With Rockbox on both of them they should have similar EQ features so that shouldn't be an issue if you're really getting all the settings the same. But there are lots of things to play with so it's possible you have something set different on one versus the other accounting for the difference you're hearing.

I've run detailed measurements on both my e260 and my Clip+. The Clip+ blows away the e-series in terms of lower distortion, higher output, and especially, as you noticed, better deep bass response. The Clip+ is flat to 10hz. The e-series starts rolling off noticeably around 100hz and things get worse from there on down. The Clip+ also has a lower output impedance (it's close to a dedicated headphone amp in that area), and works better with a wider range of phones.

I have Rockbox'd the Clip+ and it makes basically zero difference in the audio performance with the EQ and other enhancements turned off. The Rockbox firmware does correct the timing/speed error on the stock Clip+ (which plays back slightly fast).

My subjective view is the Clip+ also sounds better than the e-series. The e-series has always, to my ears, had a kind of gritty or dirty sound to it in the upper mid range and highs. I noticed that from when I got it back when they were fairly new. To be honest, I don't think it does anything better than the Clip+. Well, it's probably better for playing Rockbox games on. And the e-series might last longer. The "wheel" on my e-series is dying but the rest of it held up well for several years of use at the gym.

I haven't bothered to Rockbox my e260 as it's not even worth messing with anymore. The Clip+ sounds better and is more convenient. I don't even miss the color screen (although I might pick up a Fuze before they're sold out as they supposedly have basically the same amazing audio performance as the Clip+).

Quote:

Originally Posted by chelboed 
Different strokes for different folks. The Clip+ is a killer player for the money though. I just hope people don't dump their e2xx for a Clip just because they read that someone liked it better. I also don't want someone to not get a Clip just because I think the e2xx sounds better.

That's a great way to put it. And you're 100% correct that what matters most is which one puts the bigger smile on *your* face.

I completely understand your other comment about "lush" sound. We engineering geeks have a phrase for that: "Euphonic distortion". If you haven't heard that phrase before, it basically means distortion that some people like. And, obviously, it's a huge part of electric guitar sound. But it can show up in more subtle ways in playback gear as well.

The fun thing is gear with enough DSP horsepower can very faithfully create all sorts of euphonic distortion from very subtle to very obvious. So you can start with a pure and accurate signal chain and let the listener dial in the kinds of EQ and other distortions they want for their tastes, music, particular headphones/speakers, etc. Emulating the sound of various tube gear is a popular example. Some of the cheap or older DSPs do a cheesy approximation but the better/newer ones can fool lots of people. These days it's not so much about the hardware as the DSP software/firmware.

Pure analog signal paths are already really rare. And once any part of the playback chain is digital, the use of DSP for tweaking the sound is easy. You can buy a home theater receiver for a few hundred dollars at Walmart that does full blown MLS-style impulse response testing in your listening room with a supplied microphone. It applies complex parametric EQ to each channel, time delays for each channel/phase correction, standing wave correction, and more. That kind of functionality was many thousands of dollars not so long ago and now it's mainstream because most of the necessary hardware is already in nearly all such receivers.

Of course many purists don't want their bits being messed with but they probably already are being "corrupted". Even a digital volume control of any kind is a form of DSP--ditto any sort of EQ, a subwoofer crossover, or lossy compression. So it's all relative.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chelboed 

After using both DAP's...I'm still really curious about the iAudio-9. If I enjoy the subtle differences between Sansa's....I think I'd appreciate the Cowon.

You probably would. There are a lot of settings to tinker with, that's for sure!