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My impressions of HE-6 vs HD800 vs Stax SR-007 - Page 5

post #61 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

 

Thanks, Coolcat.

 

It would be nice if there were non-electrostatic headphones that were as good as or better than the Stax SR-007. It's kind of boring that the SR-007 have been better than anything in production for quite a few years now. When the Stax C32 is introduced, the gap will probably be even wider, with even less of a chance for non-electrostatics to catch up.

 

The only reason I see for going with any full-size open headphones other than the SR-007 (or C32) is cost. However, if you buy HD800, T1, HE-6, ED10, etc. with a high-end amp (Beta 22, GS-X, Apache, B-52, etc.), you come pretty close to the price of the SR-007+KGSS. Also, many people buy multiple dynamic headphones and amps because something is always not quite right with any given setup. My advice is to just get the SR-007/KGSS and be done with it. You can then just focus on the music rather than the equipment, and your wallet will thank you in the long run as well - less equipment churn.

 



People buying Apache or B-52 are just plain rich. They probably have an O2 system or don't bother to have.

A self-built b22 can get you way less than 1K$ in cost. Add another say 400$ to commission a head-fier and you're really close to >1K$.

O2 + KGSS = 4800$

b22 + hd800 = 2500$ ~ 

 

So it's not really close.

A dynamic system will always be budget-constrained one even in these numbers.

post #62 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by yossi126 View Post





People buying Apache or B-52 are just plain rich. They probably have an O2 system or don't bother to have.

A self-built b22 can get you way less than 1K$ in cost. Add another say 400$ to commission a head-fier and you're really close to >1K$.

O2 + KGSS = 4800$

b22 + hd800 = 2500$ ~ 

 

So it's not really close.

A dynamic system will always be budget-constrained one even in these numbers.



I'm not sure how much an unbalanced Beta 22 is from a reputable builder these days, but I believe it's over $1500. Balanced ones are close to $3K for base, and over $3.5K if you max them out with upgrades, inputs/outputs, etc.

 

One reason for the increasing prices is that component prices keep going up faster than inflation, and the Beta 22 has a lot of components!

 

Even the GS-X went up in price from $1800 to $2500 (actually, I think the introductory price was $1500).

 

High-end dynamic headphones amps are becoming really expensive... The headphones are getting more and more expensive as well. The HD800 that I just bought actually cost me a little more than my SR-007 which I bought brand new from Japan in 2007 for $1400...

 


Edited by visualguy - 3/1/11 at 7:02pm
post #63 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

You can then just focus on the music rather than the equipment, and your wallet will thank you in the long run as well - less equipment churn.

 

ah, but one person's "equipment churn" is another person's "journey of discovery" with many a reward along the way...

post #64 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by melomaniac View Post

 

ah, but one person's "equipment churn" is another person's "journey of discovery" with many a reward along the way...



^

post #65 of 290
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by melomaniac View Post

 

ah, but one person's "equipment churn" is another person's "journey of discovery" with many a reward along the way...



Time and money are in short supply - I say just go for the best and forget the rest.

 

 

post #66 of 290

a friend of mine will compare the Stax 727 to the combination Stax Energizer+Krell Kav300i driving  his O2MKII.

I'm eagerly wating for the result,because it will indicate,which way is the better way to choose between home amps and  Stax Amps (don't want to talk about KGSS or blue Hawaii now have to wait a few months till one of us get the blue Hawaii)

post #67 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post
It would be nice if there were non-electrostatic headphones that were as good as or better than the Stax SR-007. It's kind of boring that the SR-007 have been better than anything in production for quite a few years now. When the Stax C32 is introduced, the gap will probably be even wider, with even less of a chance for non-electrostatics to catch up.

 

Of all the non-electrostatic headphones that I've been able to compare to my OII, the ones that have come the closest have been the JH Audio JH13 and Audeze LCD-2 - but while they're the closest, they're not really all that close. When it comes right down to it, the JH13 and LCD-2 are both really good, but the OII is capable of simply performing at another level, almost like at a higher plane of existence. I definitely agree that it would be nice if there were non-electrostatic headphones as good or better than the OII, but I personally see that as a pipe dream.

post #68 of 290

Honestly, how hard can it be? tongue.gif

It kind of does make you wonder whether the current flagships are either built down to a price to compete with each other, or if they are a full out assault on building the best headphone they can.

However, it is wonderful to see many more choices now in the $1k bracket, they certainly seem to have filled in that price gap.

 

I remember being very excited when the LCD-2's were released, and since I'm a basshead, I was dieing to hear them for myself.

When I did, I was kind of disappointed because to my ears, the bass performance didn't surpass my O2's at all. The bass was pretty much as good as the O2's. It was really odd, because it seemed like everybody and their dog were going on and on as if their bass performance was a revelation from the gods, but the O2's have been doing it all along for the last 12 years or so.

 

I've never appreciated how good the O2's were until I compared them to the LCD-2's, which is probably my fault because I went straight to them as my first high end headphone. That's the strange thing about the O2's, they really are as relaxed and chill like everyone says. It's almost as if they never want you to know how good they actually are.

 

Anyway, thanks for the impressions, they are certainly helpful to someone who wasn't able to experience the journey of discovery.

 

 

post #69 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualguy View Post

Time and money are in short supply - I say just go for the best and forget the rest.


when your kid learns to drive a car, do you get them a Ferrari? when you first play Halo Reach, do you go for heroic mode straight away? when you learn to cook, does it start with sous vide and cryogenic seafood foam? I think you are certainly right that one should never aim too low, but there's something to be said for enjoying the learning experience - it yields hard-won pleasures that cannot be short-circuited in my opinion.

post #70 of 290

Enjoying the learning experience is fine and all, and absolutely necessary too, but not when you're juggling multiple high-end systems. Then it's just too financially inefficient. I'd say get your learning out of the way with mid-fi gear, then go for the best when you finally know what you want.

 

What I would like to see is not so much non-electrostatic alternatives but more diversity within the electrostatic market (and quality diversity, not shady knock-offs). But then again I don't know if the market is big enough to support said diversity in the first place. Oversaturating it with electrostatics that nobody wants or can't afford can't be good for anybody.

post #71 of 290

From the above comments... do we understand correctly... that... the 02 MKI's are the best there is right now... only with the BHSE - a $7,000+ set up?

 

Or... are they still the best there is right now... with the Stax amps... and/or the KGSS?

 

That is... you've got to spend at least $4,000 to $7,000 before you "get there?" 

 

If that's correct... then... subjectively... how much better, in general - 5%, 10%, 15%...? 

 

So... then... the ultimate question is - is that relative performance margin, worth the investment margin, over other setups... of, say, $2,000 to $5,000. 

 

For that kind of margin... I suspect most of us... are going to want a pretty significant improvement in overall sound quality to justify an investment margin of that magnitude - especially, when you can get some pretty great speaker setups for that kind of investement (if you shop very carefully for the top values (e.g. W4S, Monarchy, Maggies, Decware, etc.)). 

 

So... for most of us... we're likely far more interested in what's the "best value" set up (where you get the best sound for the money) - even if we're independently wealthy (that's how we got there).

 

I don't know... it's just a wild guess... but, I'll bet one "best value setup" is very likely the AD2000's driven by the WA6m / WA6 SEm - at least compared to the SR-507's driven by the 007t II, and a lot more.  At least that's been my experience.


Edited by Gradofan2 - 3/2/11 at 10:14am
post #72 of 290
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asr View Post

 

Of all the non-electrostatic headphones that I've been able to compare to my OII, the ones that have come the closest have been the JH Audio JH13 and Audeze LCD-2 - but while they're the closest, they're not really all that close. When it comes right down to it, the JH13 and LCD-2 are both really good, but the OII is capable of simply performing at another level, almost like at a higher plane of existence. I definitely agree that it would be nice if there were non-electrostatic headphones as good or better than the OII, but I personally see that as a pipe dream.


The words of truth. I bought my Omega 2 MK1 for just $1600. Add a good amp, probably used KGSS or a modded 727 and you can get one of the best systems out there for less than $3k. Dynamics really don't come close. Show me the best ortho/dynamic with the best dynamic amp and still the Stax Omega will win. That is unless you like the more pressured heavy sound of dynamics, but I can't really see how anyone could honestly prefer that sound over the light and elegant Stax sound.


Edited by wind016 - 3/2/11 at 12:50pm
post #73 of 290

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gradofan2 View Post

 

So... for most of us... we're likely far more interested in what's the "best value" set up (where you get the best sound for the money) - even if we're independently wealthy (that's how we got there).

 

I don't know... it's just a wild guess... but, I'll bet one "best value setup" is very likely the AD2000's driven by the WA6m / WA6 SEm - at least compared to the SR-507's driven by the 007t II, and a lot more.  At least that's been my experience.


I sold my Woo Audio 6SE. Honestly, Stax are the best value if you're spending that much already.

 

Just save an extra $1000 and you'll have a system that is better than almost anything else out there.

post #74 of 290

Hmm so fillet steak is better than sirloin - what a surprise - I think this thread is utterly pointless

post #75 of 290

I'm not sure where you're buying the O2's + KGSS for $3,000... or... even the O2's and 727.  For most of us that's a minimum of $4,500 - $5,000.  Perhaps, if you "luck into" a pair of O2's for <$1,000 + the KGSS at a good price, or a 727 at a good price - but, that's very rare.

 

And... I'm betting that combo doesn't provide an overall improvement in sound over the LCD-2, or even the AD2000 + WA6 SEm (that I have), of more than about 15%. 

 

The added cost increment of about 150% for a 15% improvement in sound... or... even an added cost increment of 66% for a 15% improvement in sound - just doesn't compute.  Not in a "rationale World"... maybe... in an "emotional World."

 

It's a lot like paying $400-$500 for a cable for the LCD-2's - it simply can't provide an improvement in the sound "proportionate" to the added cost.  Maybe 15%, but not 50% - it's an "emotional decision," not a "rationale decision," justifed by a 50% improvement in sound. 

 

And... JH-13's are not comparable to headphones.

 

I'm still waiting for the greatest value relative to the sound. 


Edited by Gradofan2 - 3/2/11 at 2:02pm
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