My impressions of HE-6 vs HD800 vs Stax SR-007 - Page 9

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch 

 

 

The costs and/or difficulty in getting a 'stat rig are IMO overrated.

 

What I never liked was the voicing of the mid-level Stax (303, 404) but I haven't heard the new lineup. If it doesn't suffer from the same problems then it's even more reason to go 'stat. Then, there's always the ESP950.

Well... I don't think they're overrated... you have to be pretty patient, or lucky, to find what you're looking for at a good price - they just "don't grow on trees."

Do you just change out the plug on the ESP950 to use the Stax Pro jacks?  Indeed that might be the best way to assess the stat sound, if you've already got a Stax amp (which I do). 

And... I guess you got your MKI from "Osakaears" on Audiogon.  I looked at those to, but opted to buy the MKII's on there at the same time - unfortunately, the MKII seller backed out of the deal at the 11th hour.

"clearly" to whom?  the 202/303/404 are not in the same class as the HE6/LCD-2
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkhead 

 

Clearly the natural competitors to the HE6/LCD-2 are the 303 404 (I have auditioned the 303 and did not like it at all) 

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkhead 

@catscratch

 

thanks for the insight(s)

 

Clearly the natural competitors to the HE6/LCD-2 are the 303 404 (I have auditioned the 303 and did not like it at all) 

I am confused you say the competitor to the HE6 is stax 303 but yet you own HE6 and did not like the 303. Seem like you may be confused. I have heard the )2 and IMO the HE6 is a much better can and it stomps the HD800 and T1 since I owned the HD800,LCD2 and HE6 and the only one that remains is the HE6. because it was better than anything else I owner now or in the past. My two cents yours may vary

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gradofan2 

 

Well... I don't think they're overrated... you have to be pretty patient, or lucky, to find what you're looking for at a good price - they just "don't grow on trees."

 

Do you just change out the plug on the ESP950 to use the Stax Pro jacks?  Indeed that might be the best way to assess the stat sound, if you've already got a Stax amp (which I do). 

 

And... I guess you got your MKI from "Osakaears" on Audiogon.  I looked at those to, but opted to buy the MKII's on there at the same time - unfortunately, the MKII seller backed out of the deal at the 11th hour.

 

 

 I may a reply but I guess it didn't go through on the thread. Yea, I got the MK1 from Osakaears.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Petyot 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight 

A little exaggeration to me here. I love my O2 but the HD800 is definitely no slouch. How much is huge?

I won't say the O2+717 is a huge step above the HD800+B22. My justification might change after I finish the amp I'm building but so far I've never underestimated the HD800. Actually, I much prefer it to my K1000.
 

 

In MY setup, with MY ears, etc... I prefer the K1000 to the HD800 but I find the K1000 VERY unconfortable and tend to grab the HD800 more often.

Still, my global ranking is O2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>K1000>>HD800
 

I have a similar feeling too. The rankings and preferences for ortho/dynamic headphones were rather similar, but it was based more so on preference of tonal balance if anything. The O2 couldn't be touched though simply because no other headphone could be described effortless in comparison.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank I 

I am confused you say the competitor to the HE6 is stax 303 but yet you own HE6 and did not like the 303. Seem like you may be confused. I have heard the )2 and IMO the HE6 is a much better can and it stomps the HD800 and T1 since I owned the HD800,LCD2 and HE6 and the only one that remains is the HE6. because it was better than anything else I owner now or in the past. My two cents yours may vary

I did like the HE6 a lot. I probably liked it the most out of all the other orthos and dynamics, but the light effortless presentation of the O2 won out for me.

I got the O2 from KuboTen, but it was a few years back. For the ESP950, you can recable it but you can also have a Koss to Stax adapter custom-made without changing the cable. The bias voltage is a little different (I think it's 600V) but they will work with Stax amps without changing the bias too.

Joe glad you found one so fast. did you get the amp yet? For me The HE6 does everything I want it too and is very synergistic with my system, I sold the LCD2 repurchased ny favorite closed D7000 and spend more hours with my single driver highefficiency Omega monitors and my sub/ I just ordered some Mullard EL84 and 2492 so pretty soon I will be all NOS Mullard and have enough tubes to change the sound of my amp month to month. Thats was my last purchase.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind016 

 I may a reply but I guess it didn't go through on the thread. Yea, I got the MK1 from Osakaears.

I have a similar feeling too. The rankings and preferences for ortho/dynamic headphones were rather similar, but it was based more so on preference of tonal balance if anything. The O2 couldn't be touched though simply because no other headphone could be described effortless in comparison.

 

I did like the HE6 a lot. I probably liked it the most out of all the other orthos and dynamics, but the light effortless presentation of the O2 won out for me.

 

I don't know about the 202/303/404 as I've never heard them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Lambdas are at the same level as the LCD2/HE6 (or above).  The 303/404 are the most complained about Lambda headphones and I know of a few people that liked them more than the LCD2s and bought the former or another Lambda.  Can't say I've seen the reverse situation.  To my ears the LCD2/HE6 are more tonally accurate than the vintage Lambdas I own, but they will never have the resolution of the stats.  The orthos are MUCH closer to your normal dynamics in this area than they are to electrostats, despite what the hype machine might try to lure you into thinking.  I could see somebody preferring either group of headphones though depending on what their highest sound preferences are.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hawkhead 

@catscratch

 

thanks for the insight(s)

 

Clearly the natural competitors to the HE6/LCD-2 are the 303 404 (I have auditioned the 303 and did not like it at all) 

Definitely not. I've compared them. 

But I have to admit that the new SR-507 is definitely very interesting as initial reports suggest that it fixed the 303/404 Lambda "quirks" ie. fuzzy bass and shout-y upper midrange. Same price range too. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by n3rdling 

I don't know about the 202/303/404 as I've never heard them, but I don't think it's unreasonable to say that Lambdas are at the same level as the LCD2/HE6 (or above).  The 303/404 are the most complained about Lambda headphones and I know of a few people that liked them more than the LCD2s and bought the former or another Lambda.  Can't say I've seen the reverse situation.  To my ears the LCD2/HE6 are more tonally accurate than the vintage Lambdas I own, but they will never have the resolution of the stats.  The orthos are MUCH closer to your normal dynamics in this area than they are to electrostats, despite what the hype machine might try to lure you into thinking.  I could see somebody preferring either group of headphones though depending on what their highest sound preferences are.

Right. From all the hype about orthodynamics with reports like "they combine the best of both worlds of dynamics and electrostatics", I expected them to have some similarities to stats. DEFINITELY not the case. Orthodynamics definitely do not have the best of electrostatics which is mainly the speed of their drivers. Orthodynamics sound like dynamics basically.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank I 

Joe glad you found one so fast. did you get the amp yet? For me The HE6 does everything I want it too and is very synergistic with my system, I sold the LCD2 repurchased ny favorite closed D7000 and spend more hours with my single driver highefficiency Omega monitors and my sub/ I just ordered some Mullard EL84 and 2492 so pretty soon I will be all NOS Mullard and have enough tubes to change the sound of my amp month to month. Thats was my last purchase.
 

 

I don't have an amp yet but I hope to receive one soon =)

Thats why there are choices. I could not tolerate the harsh treble of HD800 and I use tube amps. I preferred the HE6 and Denon D7000 over all other can I have heard. I have heard the O2 and will listen again but to my ears it was bass shy. Granted that was at a meet but will listen again in a couple weeks but I am set. Not selling or buying any more cans as I use speakers as much I sold off my LCD2,HD800,T1 and 701 and am happy with the two choices I made for me and my sytem. There will never be a consensus as to what is best. They are all good but I liked the hD800 the least.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lil' Knight 

We surely have very different ears then.

I'm with you on this one too Lil'Knight. I have always thought good not great with the O2s (amp used was a SRS-007). Maybe another amp would change that?

Quote:

Originally Posted by MacedonianHero 

I'm with you on this one too Lil'Knight. I have always thought good not great with the O2s (amp used was a SRS-007). Maybe another amp would change that?

I heard it from a Blue Hawaii and I will probably receive a KGSS in a few weeks. I'll see if I have the same feelings with a KGSS. At least for my impressions of the HD800 tonal balance, frequency graphs also seem to match what I hear. The HD800 definitely sounded brighter with the mids recessed. Frequency graphs show the upper mids recessed so I guess that's what it was. It was only a short audition though. Definitely not long term. The O2 impression was also an audition, but the difference then was dramatic enough to make me sell almost all my dynamic gear. I hope the KGSS is within a similar level of performance as the Blue Hawaii.

As said before though, the O2s respond to amplification improvements much more noticeably than dynamics. Dynamics aren't that hard to drive in comparison.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank I 

Thats why there are choices. I could not tolerate the harsh treble of HD800 and I use tube amps. I preferred the HE6 and Denon D7000 over all other can I have heard. I have heard the O2 and will listen again but to my ears it was bass shy. Granted that was at a meet but will listen again in a couple weeks but I am set. Not selling or buying any more cans as I use speakers as much I sold off my LCD2,HD800,T1 and 701 and am happy with the two choices I made for me and my sytem. There will never be a consensus as to what is best. They are all good but I liked the hD800 the least.

The bass shyness may have been due to the amplifier that was used? I'm not sure but the O2 was very impactful and extended in the low range when I heard it through a Blue Hawaii. The O2 definitely thumped on bass drum kicks while plugged into a Blue Hawaii at least. I'll know for myself how it performs with a KGSS later on.

Quote:

Originally Posted by wind016 

I heard it from a Blue Hawaii and I will probably receive a KGSS in a few weeks. I'll see if I have the same feelings with a KGSS. At least for my impressions of the HD800 tonal balance, frequency graphs also seem to match what I hear. The HD800 definitely sounded brighter with the mids recessed. Frequency graphs show the upper mids recessed so I guess that's what it was. It was only a short audition though. Definitely not long term. The O2 impression was also an audition, but the difference then was dramatic enough to make me sell almost all my dynamic gear. I hope the KGSS is within a similar level of performance as the Blue Hawaii.

 

As said before though, the O2s respond to amplification improvements much more noticeably than dynamics. Dynamics aren't that hard to drive in comparison.
 

The bass shyness may have been due to the amplifier that was used? I'm not sure but the O2 was very impactful and extended in the low range when I heard it through a Blue Hawaii. The O2 definitely thumped on bass drum kicks while plugged into a Blue Hawaii at least. I'll know for myself how it performs with a KGSS later on.

Maybe it was the amp, but I've rarely heard one amp completely change my thoughts on a headphone.

I hear Doug setup with the top of the line maxxed out Woo