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Brainwavz B2 Impressions & Discussion Thread - Page 72

post #1066 of 1355

'Analytical' is more than just FR dependent for me. It also tends to be a flatter, more 2D sound that is often sometimes boring and unengaging. So it's a combination of coldness and sterility as well. The B2, when properly sealed, has a nicer more rounded note and sweeter treble for my ears than something like the ER4P/S or CK10 whom I do consider more analytical.  The Etys and CK10 are phones that seem to sound better overall if you pick apart aspects of their sound but the whole picture doesn't work as well overall for me compared to the B2.  When properly fit, the B2 is much too fun, forward and engaging to be analytical in that sense for me.  I could rock out to Rush all day w/ the B2/DBAs but not the ER4/CK10.

post #1067 of 1355
 Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

small (to large) high-midrange spike (Etymotic does it either at the 1.5, 2, or 2.7 kHz range while other companies will do it around the 3 kHz and others in a different place).  I was asked why I didn't see it as analytic, so I gave the area of the entire definition it broke.  

Actually, neither the ER4S nor the HF5s have a spike there, perhaps a really small bump with really short or wide bore tips, but mostly they don't. You're perhaps looking at raw graphs, which don't translate into how one will perceive it, HRTF have to be taken into account, same way the B2 raw graph by Rin isn't representative. 

 

This is how they are perceived on average the graphs are measured properly but, granted these aren't elaborate graphs (it's suppose to curve up, this makes it seem like the treble is bumped way up but it's not and 10k is further back) and all of them are using the grey triflange tips which tame midhigh and treble regions to some extent. Note, ER4B truly does have a slight emphasis on the midhighs, the other two, not. 

 

700

 

Given the connotations that are granted by the labelling of "Analytical', I would not place the Etys (4P/4S/HF) there. ER4B yes, but this one is to be used for binaural recordings. ER-6 by far does not fall into this. 

 

Thing is a lot of IEMs dip in that 1.5-3k region, some a lot, some little like the B2 or PFEs. 


Edited by Inks - 8/2/12 at 12:39am
post #1068 of 1355

Is the RE-0 analytical? I think so based on how I think of it.

post #1069 of 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Actually, neither the ER4S nor the HF5s have a spike there, perhaps a really small bump with really short or wide bore tips, but mostly they don't. You're perhaps looking at raw graphs, which don't translate into how one will perceive it, HRTF have to be taken into account, same way the B2 raw graph by Rin isn't representative. 

 

This is how they are perceived on average the graphs are measured properly but, granted these aren't elaborate graphs (it's suppose to curve up, this makes it seem like the treble is bumped way up but it's not and 10k is further back) and all of them are using the grey triflange tips which tame midhigh and treble regions to some extent. The ER4B does have a bump there though. 

 

700

 

Given the connotations that are granted by the labelling of "Analytical', I would not place the Etys (4P/4S/HF) there, ER4B yes but this one is to be used for binaural recordings. . ER-6 by far does not fall into this. 

 

Thing is a lot of IEMs dip in that 1.5-3k region, some a lot, some little like the B2 or PFEs. 

 

That's it...  Raw graphs will have this spike (as the natural ear creates this spike naturally).  I don't hear this aspect in the B2, but that's just me I guess.  

post #1070 of 1355

Haven't heard that one is so long, I forgot. RE-Zeros have similar bass punch to the B2s, with a Ety HF-like treble except a bit more conservative, yet more extended but grainier. 

 

No, the ear resonantes that region, so if it were to graph flat in that region on a raw graph, it will be recessed in true hearing. I think the SM3 is this way. 


Edited by Inks - 8/1/12 at 9:54pm
post #1071 of 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Haven't heard that one is so long, I forgot. RE-Zeros have similar bass punch to the B2s, with a Ety HF-like treble except a bit more conservative, yet more extended but grainier. 

 

No, the ear resonantes that region, so if it were to graph flat in that region on a raw graph, it will be recessed in true hearing, think the SM3 is this way. 

 

Yup...  That's why I want that spike in the ASG-1 (others say it'd become strident :(  Works well in EQ though).  I haven't heard the RE0s in over a year.  I remember that spike not being there though.  But yes, it had the punch similar to the B2 (from memory), but I remember much better texture with the 0s (using Sony Hybrid tips).  The highs were a lot softer, but detailed and extended like the Ety (and more extended).  Glad my memory wasn't grainy :p  These are the 0s, not the ZERO's.

post #1072 of 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pingupenguins View Post

 

Actually, If you really want to get into it, you can get some tweezers and wiggle the driver out. The surrounding is silicon and it isn't glued to the drive. BY NO MEAN USE THE WIRE TO PULL THE DRIVER OUT! You risk taking off the pads of the driver, which is not repairable. New drivers cost $50 each.

 

 

700

 

 

Here's proof you can pull out the driver.

I was about to reply that you had misunderstood me, but I was the one who misunderstood you. Cool, thanks, I'll take that into consideration.

 

EDIT: Seems like I'll have to open them up again soon. Right channel just cut out for a minute until I flicked it. I have 2 quick questions for anyone who wants to answer:

1. The solder points were both exposed when I put the housing back together. I have no doubt they were able to conduct electricity back and forth. How is it that they could still work when this is the case?

2. Is there any way I can push a blunt nail through the port hole to give me some leverage when I do this? When you say "wiggle" with a tweezers, how much wiggling is necessary- do the just pop out or do they take a lot of coaxing?

 

PS When they say a speaker is installed out of phase (meaning, I guess, that the +/- wires are mismatched to their respective connections) how does that affect speakers? I read that the DBA-02s Mk.1 had out of phase connections, how did they make it past QC like this?

 

Edited by jadawgis732 - 8/2/12 at 12:01am
post #1073 of 1355

These are my favourite IEM's. I prefer them to RE-ZERO's in every aspect. And the resolution with detail is awesome!!! These are created to listen Pink Floyd records! smily_headphones1.gif

post #1074 of 1355
Originally Posted by jadawgis732 View Post

 

PS When they say a speaker is installed out of phase (meaning, I guess, that the +/- wires are mismatched to their respective connections) how does that affect speakers? I read that the DBA-02s Mk.1 had out of phase connections, how did they make it past QC like this?

 

Yup, both the B2s and DBA02MKIIs have inverted phase, it's a common error in budget stuff. It isn't a huge deal though as long as both channels are matching. QC isn't necessarily high for IEMs such as these, notice how one channel had a tiny bit of audible distortion compared to the other side. Notably though, the B2s had very well matched drivers, hopefully it's relatively consistent within different batches. 


Edited by Inks - 8/2/12 at 3:38pm
post #1075 of 1355

K, that's what I thought. Thanks very much for that. Last comment, then I'm going to sleep: I think that after I soldered them to the iPhone cable, and had the solder points touching (this is called tin whiskers), there was a notable decrease in extension(?), as in the very high and very low frequencies kind of decreased in performance. As someone who just spent $110 on headphones, I didn't want to admit this to myself, so I was kind of convincing myself that they sounded just as good after the mod. Forced to look at it objectively, after the right channel suddenly dropped off, I think there is a noticeable difference. I just hope that it is reversible and I haven't ruined anything.

 
post #1076 of 1355

That could be due to the difference in resistance between the Apple cable and the stock one and not necessarily a phase issue. Differences should be small though and you do mention it is. 

post #1077 of 1355
I've experimented with phasing on my Westone-cabled DBA-02 Mk I (see my avatar) by flipping one of the two connectors and I cannot hear any difference. My experiments included tests from the site below, designed specifically to evaluate speaker phasing. Those listening tests showed only the tiniest differences, which were not consistent as to which was "correct". Maybe that's just a BA characteristic.

http://www.audiocheck.net/audiotests_polaritycheck.php
post #1078 of 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

You made many assumptions about my definition of analytical in an ignorant manner.  Don't ever assume anything.  "It makes and ass out of u and me."  (If you don't know, this is one of my favorite quotes XD).  Just about every assumption you made past the spike was incorrect.  

 

As for oversimplifying it, I wasn't.  I was asked why I didn't think the B2 was analytical.  The answer was that part (keyword here is part, not all) of my analytical definition involves a small (to large) high-midrange spike.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

The B2s don't have that needed bump in order for me to call them analytical as it actually has a V in the area these 3 IEMs bump.

 
I don't want to spend more time than necessary discussing this, but as you can see, you specified the B2 were not analytical because they didn't have a certain spike, which says that a FR spike is essential for something to be analytical. How am I assuming anything, and wrongly for that matter? You said you didn't consider them analytical,and explained this was because of something which I think has nothing to do with being analytical, not just that a part of being analytical was missing, but that something apparently essential wasn't there. I know there's a myriad of "IMHO" and "YMMV" in this sort of discussion, and you're obviously entitled to your opinion, but your newer definition doesn't correspond with the earlier one.
 
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anaxilus View Post

'Analytical' is more than just FR dependent for me.

 

This, repeated to infinity.

post #1079 of 1355
Quote:
Originally Posted by LizardKing1 View Post

 

This, repeated to infinity.

 

You obviously didn't read why I thought this spike was needed...  Good day now.  

 

EDIT: To clarify that assumption you made.  You made the assumption that the singular spike was the only thing needed for an analytical phone.  I already stated that wasn't true before hand.  You decided to take my words and warp them out of context.  


Edited by tinyman392 - 8/2/12 at 8:23am
post #1080 of 1355

The term 'out of phase' is not the one to be used here. It's 'phase inverted'. Out of phase means one channel is inverted to the other as opposed to the absolute phase being inverted on both. I just measured an apple cable. 1.2 ohms of resistance. Higher than most but definitely less than an ohm different.


Edited by goodvibes - 8/2/12 at 8:05am
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