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post #691 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post


I'll agree with everything here, however, I still believe the 232s possess much better quality over the 121.  The 121 still remains the better value though (quality:price ratio).  No clue on the drivers though.

 

From what I read so far, it seems like they are on par in sound quality overall with each having its strengths and weaknesses. The 121 is better for analytical listeners, has a more balanced frequency response and better mids. PFE232 has a more fun response, bigger bass for bass lovers and a smoother treble at the expense of midrange presence. My conclusion based on what I read is that PFE232 is not worth anywhere near the price, but then again I think single driver PFE is better sounding than any multi driver IEM I tried so far overall and so I wouldn't mind paying upwards of $500 or even more for it considering how many inferior sounding IEMs are selling for a lot more money than the Phonaks.

post #692 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

From what I read so far, it seems like they are on par in sound quality overall with each having its strengths and weaknesses. The 121 is better for analytical listeners, has a more balanced frequency response and better mids. PFE232 has a more fun response, bigger bass for bass lovers and a smoother treble at the expense of midrange presence. My conclusion based on what I read is that PFE232 is not worth anywhere near the price, but then again I think single driver PFE is better sounding than any multi driver IEM I tried so far overall and so I wouldn't mind paying upwards of $500 or even more for it considering how many inferior sounding IEMs are selling for a lot more money than the Phonaks.



I think your conclusions seem like they are based on value, and not SQ directly.  In otherwords, I do think that the value that each IEM possesses is playing into how you view the actual SQ.  A Value + SQ vs Value + SQ type of deal would lead them equal, but a SQ vs SQ, the 232 wins while a Value vs Value would lead to a 121 victor. 

post #693 of 983

If PFE121 has better midrange, similar bass quality and is not too far off in the treble as well, then I don't see how PFE232 can be considered better overall. Seems more like it would depend on personal taste to decide which one is better and there is no clear winner here. BTW, are there any detailed measurements available for the 232 yet? I would like to see some square wave graphs for it as well as impulse response and distortion levels. I know it may seem like I am overly harsh on the PFE232 here, but you have to understand that I heard quite a few dual driver BAs already including UM2, Super.fi 5 Pro, Q-jays, UE700, DBA-02, and I prefer single driver Audeo to all of them, and I believe that PFE beats them all in technical ability. This makes me very skeptical about PFE232 - how could Audeo pull off what Westone, Jays and UE could not with their dual drivers?

post #694 of 983

^Dang. You put another IEM on my single driver IEM hunt biggrin.gif Thanks for the post beerchug.gif

post #695 of 983

I think you need to hear it before coming to any conclusions, sound is always subjective, and descriptions and graphs can only go so far.

post #696 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by monoglycer View Post

I think you need to hear it before coming to any conclusions, sound is always subjective, and descriptions and graphs can only go so far.

 

Maybe, but first I need to understand what Phonak did with their PFE232 that makes them sound better than the cheaper dual drivers like DBA-02, CK10, Q-jays, UM2 etc. Graphs also need to look good. Then we can get into subjective impressions from there.

 

post #697 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

If PFE121 has better midrange, similar bass quality and is not too far off in the treble as well, then I don't see how PFE232 can be considered better overall. Seems more like it would depend on personal taste to decide which one is better and there is no clear winner here. BTW, are there any detailed measurements available for the 232 yet? I would like to see some square wave graphs for it as well as impulse response and distortion levels. I know it may seem like I am overly harsh on the PFE232 here, but you have to understand that I heard quite a few dual driver BAs already including UM2, Super.fi 5 Pro, Q-jays, UE700, DBA-02, and I prefer single driver Audeo to all of them, and I believe that PFE beats them all in technical ability. This makes me very skeptical about PFE232 - how could Audeo pull off what Westone, Jays and UE could not with their dual drivers?


I didn't say it was better overall, I just said it was better with audio quality.  I see the quality in this way with the 232 to 121:

Bass: 232 >= 121 (presence does play a key role in audio reproduction, if something isn't there, how can it be reproduced correctly?)

Mids: 121 > 232

Highs: 232 > 121

 

The 232 takes a slight edge.  Although preference does play a role, many people prefer lower quality for higher quality simply because of signature type; it doesn't mean the lower quality has better audio quality than the other.  I'm a firm believer that number of drivers means nothing, and in the end it's the tuning that counts.  I'm an analytical listener myself actually flocking to more analytical mids with well controlled highs (quality and quantity). 

 

To answer your last question, technology advancements (as time goes, we find new and better ways to implement and do things) and R&D along with driver selection.  From what I understand, both the Jays and UE use the same drivers found in the DBA-02 as well as the B2 which are inferior to the PFE121 off the bat.  It's not a fair comparison (most sound extremely similar).  As for the Westone 2s, 2 years worth of technology advancements does make a huge difference in how things sound in an end product.  Comparison to the UM2s, it's 5.  REmember, just cause one person can't do something doesn't mean the next person can't. 

post #698 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

Maybe, but first I need to understand what Phonak did with their PFE232 that makes them sound better than the cheaper dual drivers like DBA-02, CK10, Q-jays, UM2 etc. Graphs also need to look good. Then we can get into subjective impressions from there.

 



It's like asking what Westone did to the W4s to make them sound amazing, what EarSonics did to the SM3 to do the same thing... 

post #699 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by dogears View Post

^Dang. You put another IEM on my single driver IEM hunt biggrin.gif Thanks for the post beerchug.gif

 

If you haven't tried single driver PFEs yet, then you definitely need to do so. I find them superior overall to my previous favorite the UE600/Super.fi 5 and perhaps the most all around technically impressive and enjoyable IEM I ever heard, especially when paired with my HM-601.

post #700 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

If you haven't tried single driver PFEs yet, then you definitely need to do so. I find them superior overall to my previous favorite the UE600/Super.fi 5 and perhaps the most all around technically impressive and enjoyable IEM I ever heard, especially when paired with my HM-601.



+1 to that first few sentences (I don't know what it would sound like out of the HM-601; probably better)...  I have mine paired with the iPod Touch though.  Still a wonderfully amazing IEM nonetheless with great capabilities :)  I have the 022s (but use the 232 filters which are the same).

post #701 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

It's like asking what Westone did to the W4s to make them sound amazing, what EarSonics did to the SM3 to do the same thing... 

 

Compared to which quad and triple drivers? Westone 4 is the first universal fit quad driver and so understandably it should sound superior to the triple drivers at least in theory. SM3 is just another triple driver with its own unique tuning, but no revolutionary advancement. Not sure why you mention it. In case of PFE232 however, the price of $599 is on average about 3 times that of a typical dual driver BA and I can't help but feel that price it has to be a revolutionary improvement in sound quality over the much cheaper dual drivers, otherwise I don't see how the high price can be justified.

post #702 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist View Post

 

Compared to which quad and triple drivers? Westone 4 is the first universal fit quad driver and so understandably it should sound superior to the triple drivers at least in theory. SM3 is just another triple driver with its own unique tuning, but no revolutionary advancement. Not sure why you mention it. In case of PFE232 however, the price of $599 is on average about 3 times that of a typical dual driver BA and I can't help but feel that price it has to be a revolutionary improvement in sound quality over the much cheaper dual drivers, otherwise the high price doesn't make sense to me.
 

 


Tuning tuning tuning...  That is your main answer.  You have to listen to it to enjoy it.  Phonak pulled off an entirely inoffensive (but relaxing) signature with the 232s.  Put the black filters in your 121s and listen for a little while.  Then imagine the sibilance gone, better extension in the highs, less veiling lows with a clearer midrange (do to the loss of veil) while being able to pick out more details.  That is basically how the 232s are tuned :)

 

It's like you said earlier, a single driver can be tuned to sound better than a dual...  A dual driver can be tuned to sound as good as a triple and quad with unique tuning. 

 

post #703 of 983

Hope somebody can give me solid advice here. 

 

I love all types of music, I tend enjoy a natural but not necessarily neutral sound. Clarity is very important to me and from the impressions here it seems like that won't be an issue with this iem.

 

That being said, I listen to a lot of electronic music and plenty of hip hop/R&B. When listening to these genres or basically any dance music, I want to be able to close my eyes and feel like I'm in a club or a car with an expensive audio system. I want to feel the bass, it needs to be precise and powerful. 

 

So my question is, can the 232s produce that powerful bass for these types of songs, I don't mind messing with eq as long as I can be sure that they are able to produce the sound.

 

I'm currently looking at the ie 80s, but the 232s were recommended by a user here. My hope is that with these I could get a better quality of music and still get the bass I need when listening to certain music.

 

Can anyone provide some perspective on this? I'm talking about bass cranked up to max, will this produce a clearer bass response powerful enough to justify purchasing these over the ie 80s, or should I look at something else?
 

post #704 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinyman392 View Post

 

It's like you said earlier, a single driver can be tuned to sound better than a dual...  A dual driver can be tuned to sound as good as a triple and quad with unique tuning. 

 

But I am still not sure if a multi driver can be tuned to sound better than the best single drivers...
 

post #705 of 983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdshain View Post

Hope somebody can give me solid advice here. 

 

I love all types of music, I tend enjoy a natural but not necessarily neutral sound. Clarity is very important to me and from the impressions here it seems like that won't be an issue with this iem.

 

That being said, I listen to a lot of electronic music and plenty of hip hop/R&B. When listening to these genres or basically any dance music, I want to be able to close my eyes and feel like I'm in a club or a car with an expensive audio system. I want to feel the bass, it needs to be precise and powerful. 

 

So my question is, can the 232s produce that powerful bass for these types of songs, I don't mind messing with eq as long as I can be sure that they are able to produce the sound.

 

I'm currently looking at the ie 80s, but the 232s were recommended by a user here. My hope is that with these I could get a better quality of music and still get the bass I need when listening to certain music.

 

Can anyone provide some perspective on this? I'm talking about bass cranked up to max, will this produce a clearer bass response powerful enough to justify purchasing these over the ie 80s, or should I look at something else?
 


I have not heard the IE80.  I will comment on the 232s though.  The worst thing about them is the clarity, I won't lie, I wish they had slightly more clarity in the midrange.  It's enough to uncover all the details though, it's mainly the lower-mids that lose clarity but are still there.  The bass is definitely hard hitting and will give you the texture and impact you are looking for though in those dance songs.  If it still isn't enough, you can EQ or play with filters though (reference is the grey filter).  I'd wait until someone with both the IE80 and 232s comes and gives you a conclusive answer (232s should be capable though).

 

As for EQing the bass all the way up, IDK how these will handle it.  I have a horrid EQ to use on my iPod :p  And the DAC in the laptop is worse than that in the iPod :(

 

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