[Review] Impressions of the Sony EX1000 versus the FX700, GR10 and e-Q5 - Page 20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daanish 

I think James is saying that PORTABLE players sound more or less the same across the board. Once you move into desktop rigs and all that I think th equation changes

Nope, that's just not true. My Sony NWZ-A816 sounds much more detailed than my Samsung U2. The Clip is somewhere in between these two. The AMP3 had even higher resolution than my Sony. Not to mention that all players have different sound characters and strengths and weaknesses in different parts of the spectrum since they use different amps and DACs. Some are better at driving lower impedance headphones, while others do better with higher impedance ones.

I'll have to agree again.  But there is a distinction we are missing here.  The original point wasn't whether one DAP can or does sound better than another.  The point is whether such a difference will impact relative IEM comparisons significantly.  I'd say yes and no depending on the extremity of the cases in question.  So my answer is, Depends.

^I'm with Pianist on this.  There are many DAPs out there and each have their own colorization.  There is noticeable difference in the way it outputs to headphones, some better than others.  My S:flo2(I had my doubts at first) drives my IEMs better than any other DAPs, it definitely sound amped, it has great dtails and sound stage you get from a desktop setup IMO, and its portable.  If you haven't heard it, I highly recommend it.  To my ears, there is noticeable difference in sound signature(or quality I would call it) between Sansa player and ipods, Cowons, Samsung, or Sonys.  I really despise Sansa players because they sound so awful to my ears.  Am I one of the few who can distinguish SQ of DAPs?  If so, I feel very lucky.

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 

At the risk of coming across as a pompous prick, I don't really get that sound-for-the-price thing. Would the EX1000 sound any better if they cost $250? Of course not. They sound how they sound, regardless of price. So apart from having to decide whether a pair of IEMs would be worth having, my single other aspect would be whether I'm able and willing to afford it.

 

We usually want an upgrade from what we already have and that comes at a price (diminishing returns, you know the drill). To my ears the Sonys sound better than every single one of my other IEMs (except for the FI-BA-SS and W4 with some kind of music), so to me they're worth every penny.

 

I know it's a popular sport on Head-Fi to hunt down the best bang/buck IEMs and I've had my share of it. But in the long run I believe it's better to go for the best phones you can get within your budget, regardless of their bang/buck ratio. Just my 2c.

A little more to add to my brief audition to EX1000 is that I was listening to j-phonic before I tested the EX1K, which is why I don't think the price justifies the result when a $400 IEM sounds just as good if not better* than one that cost $100 more (*I didn't do an ABX on the spot, just listened to it normally). The FI-BA-SS I auditioned a few months back also fail to impress me when it comes to price. But I can see what you are trying to say here. If a person believe (s)he is getting better sound with the money spent, then it is all justifiable on a personal level. I don't disagree with that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

I don't think Rawrster is saying that.  I know he hears differences between DAPs.  I think his point is about the ability to make relative comparisons.  Granted, I too find people making observations about phones from underpowered sources.  That is problematic sometimes but what to do.  Cowon is definitely not ideal for a 650.  Heard one through a Burson last Saturday.  Not bad at all.  When I think Cowon I think sound shaping not power delivery myself but that's another story.

 

It is not bollocks and wasting money is a relative personal preference.  Paying more that $80 on a phone of any kind could be seen as such.  Amps are much more complex than just making something that delivers power.  You might not want to listen to such a device after you hear it.

 

People really like the Clip+ because it's flat and lacks noise.  It certainly doesn't drive the majority of my phones to the level of performance I prefer myself.  If it had the resolving power of my DACport and the power delivery of my Arrow I'd crown it King.  
 

I think one of the things for being an audiophile (or an experienced head-fi'er, depends how you like to see yourself) is not only to know what gear sounds good, but also the limitation of each of them. Nothing wrong with listening to HD650 with a Cowon when you know it won't drive it well, which you can then adjust your level of expectation to match the result. The issue is when a person listen to gears that are not in ideal condition and believe they have listened to all of what it can offer.
 

A lot of people do think in terms of performance/price ratio, whereas I take a 'Do I like the sound? If yes, then can I afford it or afford it in the near future' approach. I think difference between them is that the former approach emphaizes 'is it any good' or 'am I getting my money's worth' whereas the later approach is more concerned with 'is it suitable for my needs?' The thing is, I buy things not because they're objectively 'good' but because they're suitable for my needs, and taking into account the complexity of measuring performance in the audio world, the former approach can produce misleading results...
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 

At the risk of coming across as a pompous prick, I don't really get that sound-for-the-price thing. Would the EX1000 sound any better if they cost $250? Of course not. They sound how they sound, regardless of price. So apart from having to decide whether a pair of IEMs would be worth having, my single other aspect would be whether I'm able and willing to afford it.

 

We usually want an upgrade from what we already have and that comes at a price (diminishing returns, you know the drill). To my ears the Sonys sound better than every single one of my other IEMs (except for the FI-BA-SS and W4 with some kind of music), so to me they're worth every penny.

 

I know it's a popular sport on Head-Fi to hunt down the best bang/buck IEMs and I've had my share of it. But in the long run I believe it's better to go for the best phones you can get within your budget, regardless of their bang/buck ratio. Just my 2c.

Day 5:

Resolution.  Resolution.  It has it folks.  I don't recall if it was Pianist or James that said it needs a good source, but these phones really shines with a good setup.  I compared it with MTP coppers and with the setup below(much better than my portable), it reveal's 1000's true potential(it maybe better with a better setup).  So far all my sources have been portables(my portables are pretty good), and could not decern how great the 1000s were, but now I know.  Its kinda odd because I used a tube amp, but it has low impedance output port.  Diana Krull was very helpful in me realizing this.  I think its good night for a listening session, I think my ears are really sensitive tonight.

My setup:  DACmagic > Elekit TU882 > EX1000

I have Elekit TU882:

So you needed tubes for the EX1000....

Quote:

Originally Posted by james444 

At the risk of coming across as a pompous prick, I don't really get that sound-for-the-price thing. Would the EX1000 sound any better if they cost $250? Of course not. They sound how they sound, regardless of price. So apart from having to decide whether a pair of IEMs would be worth having, my single other aspect would be whether I'm able and willing to afford it.

 

We usually want an upgrade from what we already have and that comes at a price (diminishing returns, you know the drill). To my ears the Sonys sound better than every single one of my other IEMs (except for the FI-BA-SS and W4 with some kind of music), so to me they're worth every penny.

 

I know it's a popular sport on Head-Fi to hunt down the best bang/buck IEMs and I've had my share of it. But in the long run I believe it's better to go for the best phones you can get within your budget, regardless of their bang/buck ratio. Just my 2c.

I definitely agree with this. Chasing the best bang/buck can only go so far until the diminishing return finally kicks in. In my opinion, top tier IEMs are mostly only worth it when you want to precisely tune into your favorite sound signature.

One of the questions I encountered when I was reviewing the EX1000, and thus listening to them intently, is that while it does cost only $100 more for an entry-level custom, is there a custom that has the exact sound signature of the EX1000? If there isn't a custom with the sound signature of the EX1000, then no matter how little is required, that kind of reasoning of value isn't exactly justified. But then, that really depends on whether people values the comfort and isolation of a custom before the SQ of the EX1000.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pianist 

Guys, do you use your EX-1000 with high end amps and sources? I think that e-Q5 and FX700 already require a better source than an average DAP to get the best out of them, but if the EX1000 is even more revealing and transparent, I don't see how one will be able to hear this from an average DAP. You will need at least a solid $100-$200 portable amp IMO for the headphone of this level to justify its purchase coupled with a very decent line-out from HM-601 or S:Flo.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus 

So you needed tubes for the EX1000....

Tubes?! Whoa, talk about different ears for sure! Since I don't have any experience with tubes, I'll just express my surprise.

In regards of high end sources and amps, I tested the EX1000 with the Algorhythm Solo and I didn't find the difference to warrant a $1100 price jump (but then, I am also extremely broke...).

If anyone is curious, the setup was iPod G6.5 > ALO Audio Interconnect Cable> AlgoRhythm Solo > Meier Stepdance > EX1000.

Maybe it is the synergy. The AlgoRhythm Solo demonstrated great improvements among the SE425 and ER4S... however, the EX1000 barely had any.

Just did a brief test, S9 -> W4 and EX1000, ESW10JPN was hanging around just as a reference point. In general, although doing my best to control expectation bias mentally, I agree with the exsisting observations. Ultimately, in terms of FR, both phones fall within my 'basically neutral' range - indeed, if you take into account the big picture, the two IEMs are more alike than different, no huge bass bump to be found here. Although I cannot describe it in detail at this time, what has been said about dynamic smoothness seems to have some basis.  

However, it must be said that given my short 30 minute analysis, I must say the level of instrument separation and background blackness cannot match big 'phones like the ESW10JPN and Sony Z1000. So close, so much closer than the SE530/triple.fi generation, but not quite there yet. I suppose what is impressive is that they come so close at all.

I wonder if there are any studies about East Asians having small ear canals - the hybrids seem to do just fine for me.

I picked the EX-1000, though don't read anything into this - I want to try my first dynamic IEM, and I'm really interested in the EX-1000's interesting design.

(edit) bought and being tested now ... woah, these things go lowwww... just tested with 'Heardbeats' on the Chetsky / Head-fi disk.

Here's a few more impressions on the EX1000s

Day 8:

Comparisons with W4, PFE, Coppers.  W4 seams to depend on impedance of the amp, it sounds like utter crap on my CMOY from imod LOD.  I hear distortions with Coppers, but not with EX-1000.   PFEs comes closest to EX-1000, but sound stage and details are much better on the EX-1000.  

Big thumbs up for EX-1000.  Largest sound stage, most dynamic, fun, best vocals, and most detailed.  It took a total 360 turn from my first day with the headphones.  By far, the best IEM I've ever heard.  

I've been enjoying my IEMs with tube amps lately because it sounds laid back and smooth.  EX-1000's extended treble will not sound so extended on tube.

Amazing... I tried every source, and it sounds good with any source.  This is what I call quality.

My ears are spoiled now, quality bar has been raised to a higher level.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by High_Q 

Day 8:

 

Comparisons with W4, PFE, Coppers.  W4 seams to depend on impedance of the amp, it sounds like utter crap on my CMOY from imod LOD.  I hear distortions with Coppers, but not with EX-1000.   PFEs comes closest to EX-1000, but sound stage and details are much better on the EX-1000.  

 

Big thumbs up for EX-1000.  Largest sound stage, most dynamic, fun, best vocals, and most detailed.  It took a total 360 turn from my first day with the headphones.  By far, the best IEM I've ever heard.  

 

I've been enjoying my IEMs with tube amps lately because it sounds laid back and smooth.  EX-1000's extended treble will not sound so extended on tube.

 

Amazing... I tried every source, and it sounds good with any source.  This is what I call quality.

 

My ears are spoiled now, quality bar has been raised to a higher level.  

Glad you love them! And I'm also happy to know that I'm not just in the "minority" of people who thinks they're great. Not FOTM for sure 

Can anybody recommend me a good source with the Sonys? I'm not really an amp guy as I do a lot listening on the go. My Galaxy S with Wolfson WM8994 is superb but I think lacking a bit at the low end sometimes. Thinking of Sony DAPs. Any comments on them?

I know I'm comparing apples and oranges here (other than that both items have the LCP drivers), however - I've been happy with my iPhone 4G since it first came out, however - getting the MDR-Z1000, I decided to get my NWZ-X1060 out and charge it up...  Wow... Sony to Sony is gooooood :D