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[Review] Impressions of the Sony EX1000 versus the FX700, GR10 and e-Q5 - Page 185

post #2761 of 3000

At least you are open-minded enough to think that cables possibly have an effect on sound. Now I don't know regarding the EX1000 and most likely never will. But I'll still believe the comments regarding the cables from these individuals. Just I won't be testing it out myself. The MDR-7550s are superior IMO anyways.
 

post #2762 of 3000

  I'm not making any guesses or being open-minded, I know exactly what happens and how a cable can change the sound of an IEM. If this were the TF10 and the cables had a 1ohm difference, definitely a somewhat notable change, the EX1000's EX600 to EX1000 cable swap when attributed to the IEM's phase is just not even worthwhile to get carried away by. 

post #2763 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

  I'm not making any guesses or being open-minded, I know exactly what happens and how a cable can change the sound of an IEM. If this were the TF10 and the cables had a 1ohm difference, definitely a somewhat notable change, the EX1000's EX600 to EX1000 cable swap when attributed to the IEM's phase is just not even worthwhile to get carried away by. 


But you see others won't agree with you on that at all. On one side "there can't possibly be any audible differences between any cable period". While on the other side "cables do make a difference". I'm not exactly sure what causes a cable to change the sound. I did think impedance is playing a factor but who knows there could be more to it than that and there is just no knowledge to why that is. Humans are not infallible and the same goes for science. But it goes for both sides.


Edited by lee730 - 10/17/12 at 1:11am
post #2764 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


I'm not exactly sure what causes a cable to change the sound.

Different materials used in the strands from my understanding. Such as copper, silver, etc. Combinations of any percentage, grade and quality of the precious metals.
post #2765 of 3000
I will just leave it as is, I think you're trying to make it more than what it truly is IMO.
post #2766 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by H20Fidelity View Post


Different materials used in the strands from my understanding. Such as copper, silver, etc. Combinations of any percentage, grade and quality of the precious metals.


Well H20 it's still debatable as to exactly what it is. If its as simple as changing impedance's then why don't the actual makers do so on their stock cables lol? That is what really makes me wonder if there is more to the story....

post #2767 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

I will just leave it as is, I think you're trying to make it more than what it truly is IMO.


Well as usual we agree to disagree ;).

post #2768 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


Well H20 it's still debatable as to exactly what it is. If its as simple as changing impedance's then why don't the actual makers do so on their stock cables lol? That is what really makes me wonder if there is more to the story....

I found this interesting link on Wiki. Honestly I think it's the materials, they do alter impedance though overall it's actually the material that transforms a signal.

Here's the link. I see what you're saying though. Speaker cables change sound. Whether it be interconnects on home stereo's, speaker cable down to headphones. We're just working on a smaller scale..

We shrink everything. etysmile.gif

http://www.google.com.au/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&ved=0CDAQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FSpeaker_wire&ei=iGp-UK75G6-TiQeSl4DYCA&usg=AFQjCNFqmF59CdamZPwpPHZSaBZTqEsSJg&sig2=WhKUWh9rjINxqAatTD_QPg
post #2769 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post


Well H20 it's still debatable as to exactly what it is. If its as simple as changing impedance's then why don't the actual makers do so on their stock cables lol? That is what really makes me wonder if there is more to the story....

Because manufacturers aim for a specific sound and are usually tuned while alredy having knowledge of the impedance if the cable to used. Sometimes the only way to get what some attribute to better sound is by using a cable with the most efficiency like a silver cable because its the only way to reduce overall impedance, but the volume of the IEMs impedance swing has the biggest say.

A Japanese blogger tested all kinds of cables and found that an OFC cable was much difference than the others because it had a much lower inpedance die to the quality part, trick is, that premium cable isn't always going to give you better or significant results, depends on the IEM.

K now off to bed lol
post #2770 of 3000


And take it to the extreme ;). Except in our case it's quality instead of quantity :P.


Edited by lee730 - 10/17/12 at 1:28am
post #2771 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

  That's a good point, it is a bit relaxed exactly in the "crunch" region of the FR, 2-4k, as shown here. Not too bad, but if you're demanding of more there, it falls short a bit, no biggie though IMO thus why I rarely mention, but YMMV. 

Thanks. Figured someone smarter than me could explain why I'm hearing them that way. They are good for a lot of rock -- I just don't care for them with the really aggressive stuff. This sounds stunning with the EX1000s:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0MYmjJjMnb8&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Edited by Selenium - 10/23/12 at 6:55pm
post #2772 of 3000
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Yeah generally violins and female vocals have a tendency of being sibilant. So just don't PO the misses and all should be well with your hearing ;). Although I am tempted to turn up the volume with certain tracks it can get unbearable due to sibilance. Kinda sucks when you think of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lee730 View Post

Funny thing is james with the MDR-7550s no matter the fit I don't get any sort of sibilance. In fact I'm not even using the Sony Hybrid tips on them as it constricts the sound stage. IMO the "not having a good fit" is a poor excuse for the EX1000 shortcomings. Not that I'm attacking you hear, I'm attacking the product itself.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

  EX1000 doesn't change much with fit/tips, it's of very low acoustic impedance. The tips James made will help with seal rather than to tame the midhighs, matter of fact tips mostly just change the very high treble as Anaxilus pointed out a while back. The 7550's weakness is actually in that very high treble, so wide-bore tips help it more than it does the EX1000. Rin will measuring the 7550 soon, he says that based on his subjective listening it sounds quite neutral, but misses that bandwidth/air of the EX1000, no surprise. 

 

  Surprised you get no sibilance at all James, maybe your listening is just all done in quieter environments where the lower volume levels helps tame that peak. Even raising it up a notch *(not to excessive levels, mind you), doesn't yield anything?

 

Very surprising as James is the only extensive EX1000 user that has had no issue whatsoever, recordings will have a say as well though.

 

I will say that the EX1000 is the best dynamic IEM I have heard, it just has that weakness in just one spike, though again, it's of low isolation anyway so I used them in quieter environments where that peak is tamed by lower volume levels (yet not too low to sound dull). I haven't heard the GR07MKII, haven't done an A/B with the 7550 (though have heard them before) and the RE272 can also be contenders for the best performance dynamic IME. But I am going to get a chance to try all these soon ;)

 

Well, I finally found the time to do a sibilance test with different tips on my EX1000. While I agree that high treble is most affected with tip change, there's also a slight difference to my ears in how agressively sibilants are handled.

 

Sadly, I didn't find a lot of tips that I could get a seal with, it basically came down to three pairs: the DIY tips from post #1, de-cored Olives using Hybrid's stems as spacers, and Monster SuperTips Gel. And the winner is...

 

1000

 

... Monster SuperTips Gel. They give me a shallow, yet secure, fit and sound extremely clear, but not too aggressive.

 

On to the sibilance test. First of all, sibilants like "s" and "sh" are meant to sound sibilant, hence the name. So I'm not testing whether the EX1000 sound sibilant with "s" and "sh" (they do, of course), but whether they exaggerate sibilants.

(Btw @lee730, violins don't ever sound sibilant in my book. They don't produce sibilants, so it's pretty much impossible. I take it though, you were just referring to an overly aggressive rendering of violins)

 

Ok, first clip. Youtube quality isn't the best to judge sibilance, but nevertheless... Here's a very clear recording of female vocals. I have the original CD and the recording is borderline sibilant, but steers clear of exaggeration for the most part. The EX1000, to my ears, are spot-on.

 

 

Next up is a track that ever so often crosses the line imo, Stacey Kent's "The Ice Hotel". I have the original CD and love it, but think the mastering must have been sloppy, as sibilants sound exaggerated on several tracks with almost all phones. No surprise that the EX1000 render this one sibilant, like many other IEMs I've tested with the same record.

 

 

Lastly, here's an extremely emotional performance, Cecilia Bartoli singing "Cadrò, ma qual si mira" from her amazing album "Sacrificium". Skip the first two minutes, if you're only interested in the vocal part. I think the mastering on this one is actually fine, even though there's a lot of "ssssss" with certain words. For instance "Precipitando va", "Urta, fracassa e seco" sound extremely sibilant, but just look at her singing... I bet you could see the spit flying from her mouth, if you stood close to her. Again, I don't think that the EX1000 exaggerate what's being presented.

 

 

Bottom line (you already guessed it ;-), I don't hear the EX1000 as overly sibilant. Granted, they have a lot of energy in the upper ranges. Their highs presence may be fatiguing to some, no doubt. But to my ears their treble is smooth, refined and almost completely free of sibilant exaggeration.

 

Last not least, since Inks mentioned that "James is the only extensive EX1000 user that has had no issue whatsoever", hope you don't mind me concluding my post with Joker's take on the EX1000's treble. wink.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ljokerl View Post

The EX1000 picks up emphasis towards the upper midrange and treble but manages to keep its top end in control far better than the CKM99 does. Despite the moderate amount of emphasis, the EX1000 is only a hair hotter than the GR07 and manages to remain extremely smooth and refined without giving up crispness or resolution. It is not harsh and almost never sibilant. Over long listening sessions, the EX1000 can be a little more fatiguing than the GR07 but again not due to harshness or sibilance. Rather, it is the overall tilt towards treble that may grow tiresome for some listeners. Coming from the CK10, however, I wasn’t at all offended by it, though I prefer my treble emphasis higher up. On the upside, the EX1000 does an excellent job of conveying treble energy, which laid-back dynamics such as the RE262 and DDM2 simply cannot do. Interestingly, top end extension is not ‘bottomless’ – above average, certainly, but the EX1000 is on par with the GR07 in dropping off a bit earlier than my CK10 and 1964-T. Sony’s monitor is also a touch less revealing than the 1964-T - a blessing for those with a good number of mp3s in their library.

post #2773 of 3000
Quote:
Originally Posted by james444 View Post

On to the sibilance test. First of all, sibilants like "s" and "sh" are meant to sound sibilant, hence the name. So I'm not testing whether the EX1000 sound sibilant with "s" and "sh" (they do, of course), but whether they exaggerate sibilants.

(Btw @lee730, violins don't ever sound sibilant in my book. They don't produce sibilants, so it's pretty much impossible. I take it though, you were just referring to an overly aggressive rendering of violins)

 

Next up is a track that ever so often crosses the line imo, Stacey Kent's "The Ice Hotel". I have the original CD and love it, but think the mastering must have been sloppy, as sibilants sound exaggerated on several tracks with almost all phones. No surprise that the EX1000 render this one sibilant, like many other IEMs I've tested with the same record.

 

Sooo many sssssssssssssstars? biggrin.gif

 

Anyways, if only my violin spoke to me in a female voice...

post #2774 of 3000

finally I don't choose ex1000 for listening to rock & metal, if it hadn't that peaky peaky around 5300 hz (I measured it with singen) and had a better instrument separation and imagine, ex1000 would be  my first choice for rock & metal   deadhorse.gif

in the end I have tried Japanese version for about 2 weeks.


Edited by heart banger-97 - 10/28/12 at 8:51am
post #2775 of 3000
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

Sooo many sssssssssssssstars? biggrin.gif

 

You obviously know the recording very well. biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by heart banger-97 View Post
finally I don't choose ex1000 for listening to rock & metal, if it hadn't that peaky peaky around 5300 hz (I measured it with singen) and had a better instrument separation and imagine, ex1000 would be  my first choice for rock & metal 

in the end I have tried Japanese version for about 2 weeks.

 

Each to their own, I rarely listen to rock and metal. I was interested in testing sibilance in particular with female vocals, since it's repeatedly been mentioned. Also, there's are slight but noticeable difference between the tips I tried. Surprisingly the Olives had the sharpest treble, go figure. Like Inks mentioned, listening volume plays a role too, I almost never go beyond 50% on my DAPs. Don't know whether the same would apply to a metalhead... wink.gif

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