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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 53

post #781 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post

 

If you can get your hands on some Klipsch oval biflange (or single flange) tips, try them out. They're pretty much the only tips that allow me to tolerate the fit of the ER4.

Thanks for the advice. Right now I'm finding the stock triflange and biflange adequately comfortable.

 

I must say... if you can't get a deep insertion with the ER4S, sibilance becomes a big issue. I can't get the drivers deep enough without creating discomfort. You need large ear canals to fully enjoy these IEMs. Luckily, I'm good with EQ. etysmile.gif

post #782 of 4810

I have the large klipsch bi-flanges on the way actually. The small bi-flanges were too small. I'll send you a pair of the large's along with the gliders tigon. Probably next week. I wish I could use triples like other people. :(

post #783 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

I have the large klipsch bi-flanges on the way actually. The small bi-flanges were too small. I'll send you a pair of the large's along with the gliders tigon. Probably next week. I wish I could use triples like other people. :(

My ears are small, so I don't know how large tips will fit. Keep them. I appreciate your going out of your way to send me extra tips. etysmile.gif

 

The triples are just like the doubles, except it's 2mm lengthier and has a 3rd large flange that is mostly for the purpose of isolation, and not so much a seal.


Edited by tigon_ridge - 12/7/12 at 1:39am
post #784 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

My ears are small, so I don't know how large tips will fit. Keep them, keep them.

The triples are just like the doubles, except it's 2mm lengthier and has a 3rd large flange that is mostly for the purpose of isolation,the details not so much a seal.

Yeah for me the bottom two flanges would be fine. It's that top small flange that ruins it. I guess i have averagely wide but shallow canals.

Edit: Those bi-flanges are ER-6i tips btw.
Edited by gnarlsagan - 12/7/12 at 1:53am
post #785 of 4810
I've tried several tips, including the Klipsch oval tips and the Shure "olives," and found the Atrio tips to be the best with regard to both isolation and comfort.
post #786 of 4810

Well after another day of experimentation I have to say I have never come across an IEM so sensitive to what type of tip is used. Most others I have tried undergo subtle differences when different tips are used, but the with the ER4S they can make or break the sound. Definitely for me, the stock standard grey foamies are by far the best - to my ears they deliver the sort of balanced and coherent sound I was expecting (hoping) and the fit is suffiently secure that I do not have to worry about them dislodging (but strangely I can never insert the right side quite as deep as the left - by about 1mm - 2mm - so I think I am missing out a bit on the absolute full potential).

 

I did try the glider tips - they deliver a completely different sound signature but not a pleasant one to my ears - if I had heard them only with this tip I wouldn't like this IEM terribly much. But with those tips, it is impossible to insert deeply and they tend to work more by gripping onto the outer ear canal rather than putting pressure deeper within it.

 

And I did try the Shure Olives. Although they are fantastic with my SE215 that I use for computer gaming, they do not work well with the ER4S. They completely change the sound signature (not to my liking) - too warm, loss of detail, loss of top end, loss of impact and the "timing" goes awry. I guess this has something to do with the material used. And I doubt Etymotic had this sound in mind when they created the ER4S, since they would have calibrated it most likely with the tri-flange silicons and grey foamies, as they were the very original tips they came with I believe.

 

I have ordered some Comply Isolation and Comfort tips, but after the Shure Olive experience I am thinking I have probably wasted my money - I suspect to my ears only the Etymotic brand foamies are going to deliver a consistent and good sound to me, though I will of course try them. But they will still work with my SE215 anyway.

 

The problem with the original Etymotic foamies is that they do irritate my ear canal a little and even though you roll them flat before insertion, you still need that twisting motion to ensure the IEM is inserted deeply enough. It isn't a horrible irritation but a bit like the equivalent of mild abrasion - still, something I would rather be without. My ear canals are sensitive enough as it is and I have to use musician's ear plugs (custom molded) regularly. These too irritate my ear and with my GP's approval, I use a mild cortisone cream in the ear canal once per week.

 

Oh the choices - irritate my ear canals with IEMs or make my chronic pain much worse with the weight of a full size headphone :) I would still like to try the Musical Fidelity EB50, as I am reading reviews by people who have the ER4S and many if not all are rating them above the Ety. And it does not look like it is a deeply inserting IEM - probably more like a Shure SE series.

post #787 of 4810
ADD are you going to try the klipsch double flanges? I tried the comply P's but I think the slightly wider bore increases the highs a bit. Comfort is great but so far I agree the stock foamies work best. Will report on the klipsch doubles next week.
post #788 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADD View Post

Well after another day of experimentation I have to say I have never come across an IEM so sensitive to what type of tip is used. Most others I have tried undergo subtle differences when different tips are used, but the with the ER4S they can make or break the sound. Definitely for me, the stock standard grey foamies are by far the best - to my ears they deliver the sort of balanced and coherent sound I was expecting (hoping) and the fit is suffiently secure that I do not have to worry about them dislodging (but strangely I can never insert the right side quite as deep as the left - by about 1mm - 2mm - so I think I am missing out a bit on the absolute full potential).

 

I did try the glider tips - they deliver a completely different sound signature but not a pleasant one to my ears - if I had heard them only with this tip I wouldn't like this IEM terribly much. But with those tips, it is impossible to insert deeply and they tend to work more by gripping onto the outer ear canal rather than putting pressure deeper within it.

 

And I did try the Shure Olives. Although they are fantastic with my SE215 that I use for computer gaming, they do not work well with the ER4S. They completely change the sound signature (not to my liking) - too warm, loss of detail, loss of top end, loss of impact and the "timing" goes awry. I guess this has something to do with the material used. And I doubt Etymotic had this sound in mind when they created the ER4S, since they would have calibrated it most likely with the tri-flange silicons and grey foamies, as they were the very original tips they came with I believe.

 

I have ordered some Comply Isolation and Comfort tips, but after the Shure Olive experience I am thinking I have probably wasted my money - I suspect to my ears only the Etymotic brand foamies are going to deliver a consistent and good sound to me, though I will of course try them. But they will still work with my SE215 anyway.

 

The problem with the original Etymotic foamies is that they do irritate my ear canal a little and even though you roll them flat before insertion, you still need that twisting motion to ensure the IEM is inserted deeply enough. It isn't a horrible irritation but a bit like the equivalent of mild abrasion - still, something I would rather be without. My ear canals are sensitive enough as it is and I have to use musician's ear plugs (custom molded) regularly. These too irritate my ear and with my GP's approval, I use a mild cortisone cream in the ear canal once per week.

 

Oh the choices - irritate my ear canals with IEMs or make my chronic pain much worse with the weight of a full size headphone :) I would still like to try the Musical Fidelity EB50, as I am reading reviews by people who have the ER4S and many if not all are rating them above the Ety. And it does not look like it is a deeply inserting IEM - probably more like a Shure SE series.


You shouldnt have to twist to insert them deeply. Have you tried reaching around behind your head with your opposite hand and pulling your outer ear rearward? This stretches the opening and lets you deeply insert the earphone straight in. I wear foam inserts every day for work and this is how I have done it for 20+ years.

post #789 of 4810

Can anyone with the ER4S and high quality amplification, source and DAC (and obviously acute listening skills) do me a favour and download the attached 10MB file please (low_level_grunge_ER4S.zip)? It contains two short classical extracts I have created for listening with the ER4S. They highlight an issue that I have been noticing and it is annoying me quite a lot. What I seem to be noticing is that at low listening levels to classical music, I am hearing a sort of resonance or "fuzziness" that seems to come directly from the barrel of the ER4S earphone and is not a component of the music itself. But if I turn the volume up to a level louder than I normally listen, the problem is no longer evident. That is why I would describe it as some sort of innate resonance - a bit like how the exhaust on a car can resonate at particular engine revolutions and throttle openings.

 

The two extracts in low_level_grunge_ER4S.zip are very quiet classical passages, so you can listen to them at their normal low level or turn them up to a higher level than you would normally listen and it still won't be loud. This then highlights what I am noticing - there is a strange resonance, grunginess or fuzziness - whatever you want to call it at low levels which disappears if you turn the volume up. There is specific volume setting I use that makes the problem really bad but then increase or decrease the volume and it is much less or non-existent - again this would seem to be consistent with some sort of resonance in the units themselves.

 

Now these extracts have been processed with Dolby Headphone and equalised to accord for the both the spectral artifacts from Dolby Headphone as well as the ER4S itself. But before you switch off and refuse to listen, the reason I have done this is because the Dolby Headphone will place the musical content 15 feet in front of you, but any sounds coming from within the earphone itself will obviously be coming from your ear canal - at least as perceived by your brain's auditory system. The problem is more easily hidden without Dolby Headphone because the musical content and any strange sound from the earphone itself are - to your brain - coming from exactly the same place - so there is this masking effect.

 

In order to be sure it wasn't something strange with my hearing, I reversed the channels in these extracts then reversed the earphones as well - so that I was hearing the left channel of the music via the right earphone in my left ear. This time the resonance was not as bad, though still audible. This suggests to me there is a manufacturing inconsistency between individual units (as opposed to paired sets), since the only variable in this experiment was which earpiece I was using (I also tried swapping the green filter and tip but this made no difference).

 

In listening to these extracts, you should notice the problem worse in the left channel than right, mainly as the problem seems to effect treble stringed and woodwind instruments more than other instruments.

 

I have also uploaded a second file - this is nothing more than a 60 second sine wave at 440 hz and -25dBFS. When I play this through the ER4S, I hear a very odd artifact - sort of like intermodulation distortion. But I do not hear this problem through any other headphone I have ever tried - I just hear the pure 440 Hz tone. And again, as with the music extracts, changing the volume changes the degree to which this strange artifact impedes on the test tone itself - this again suggests some sort of resonance issue with the ER4S.

 

All files are 24 bit, 48 Khz sample rate.

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/s5xxej

 

http://www.sendspace.com/file/lc7d4v

post #790 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by imackler View Post

Has anyone tried the Fiio E6 with the ER4s, just for kicks? Any chance its good enough as your only amp for it?

Hey Imack.  Was just searching headfi to see if anyone else paired an e6 to an Er4p.   I'm just a noob so I'm not too well versed in describing sound, but I can tell u when I plugged my er4p > Fiio e6 > fiio e3 LOD > ipod 5.5g, I noticed a significant improvement in overall SQ (punchier bass, livelier vocals, maybe improved soundstage?).   U can get one for cheap so it doesn't hurt to try I say.

post #791 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADD View Post

Well after another day of experimentation I have to say I have never come across an IEM so sensitive to what type of tip is used. Most others I have tried undergo subtle differences when different tips are used, but the with the ER4S they can make or break the sound. Definitely for me, the stock standard grey foamies are by far the best - to my ears they deliver the sort of balanced and coherent sound I was expecting (hoping) and the fit is suffiently secure that I do not have to worry about them dislodging (but strangely I can never insert the right side quite as deep as the left - by about 1mm - 2mm - so I think I am missing out a bit on the absolute full potential).

 

I did try the glider tips - they deliver a completely different sound signature but not a pleasant one to my ears - if I had heard them only with this tip I wouldn't like this IEM terribly much. But with those tips, it is impossible to insert deeply and they tend to work more by gripping onto the outer ear canal rather than putting pressure deeper within it.

 

And I did try the Shure Olives. Although they are fantastic with my SE215 that I use for computer gaming, they do not work well with the ER4S. They completely change the sound signature (not to my liking) - too warm, loss of detail, loss of top end, loss of impact and the "timing" goes awry. I guess this has something to do with the material used. And I doubt Etymotic had this sound in mind when they created the ER4S, since they would have calibrated it most likely with the tri-flange silicons and grey foamies, as they were the very original tips they came with I believe.

 

I have ordered some Comply Isolation and Comfort tips, but after the Shure Olive experience I am thinking I have probably wasted my money - I suspect to my ears only the Etymotic brand foamies are going to deliver a consistent and good sound to me, though I will of course try them. But they will still work with my SE215 anyway.

 

The problem with the original Etymotic foamies is that they do irritate my ear canal a little and even though you roll them flat before insertion, you still need that twisting motion to ensure the IEM is inserted deeply enough. It isn't a horrible irritation but a bit like the equivalent of mild abrasion - still, something I would rather be without. My ear canals are sensitive enough as it is and I have to use musician's ear plugs (custom molded) regularly. These too irritate my ear and with my GP's approval, I use a mild cortisone cream in the ear canal once per week.

 

Oh the choices - irritate my ear canals with IEMs or make my chronic pain much worse with the weight of a full size headphone :) I would still like to try the Musical Fidelity EB50, as I am reading reviews by people who have the ER4S and many if not all are rating them above the Ety. And it does not look like it is a deeply inserting IEM - probably more like a Shure SE series.

I modded my stock foamies, by cutting them to halves. It worked extremely well, and allows me a very deep and comfortable insertion. With less foam surface area, insertion is much easier, as less twisting is necessary. I also use a bit of petroleum jelly which helps a lot with insertion. The sound is beautiful. I slept with these in my ears last night. Yes, you guessed it, I was facing the ceiling the entire time. After a while, this became uncomfortable as I really wanted to roll around, and I know that's a good well to injure my ear canals. As a result, I hardly had any sleep and eventually had to take them out, but very reluctantly, as the music was just wonderfully sublime. I had these in my ears at least 12 hours straight. There was no discomfort whatsoever in at the very end before I took them out, so that I could finally really sleep. This is by far a great investment. Now, let's hope they last much longer than my GR07 did (2 months).


Edited by tigon_ridge - 12/8/12 at 1:21pm
post #792 of 4810
Herecomestreble, the er4p doesn't need an amp. If you have a clean source there should be no difference.

ADD: That's an interesting find I'll check it out next week when I get my new pair. Could be harmonic distortion which the er4s seems to have.
post #793 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Herecomestreble, the er4p doesn't need an amp. If you have a clean source there should be no difference.
ADD: That's an interesting find I'll check it out next week when I get my new pair. Could be harmonic distortion which the er4s seems to have.

I am actually thinking that apart from the harmonic distortion problem (easy to hear on the test tone), the other problem I am hearing might possibly be the insane level of detail that the IEM has. I found that if I chaged the tip to the Glider or tri-flange, the problems I described were no longer audible except for the harmonic distortion artifact. But the problems return with the grey foamie. And to my ears the grey foamie gives me more upper midrange detail than the others, especially at around 6 - 8 Khz, which is where these sorts of shortcomings in the source material become more obvious. So I m not really sure to be honest if I have a faulty pair, whether this is "normal" for the model, or my whole setup is now sufficiently revealing that any flaw in the source - however minute - is audible.

 

Perhaps if anyone does listen to my examples, please try the stock grey foamies, as this makes the issues I have described far more obvious. I would be good to know if my pair really is faulty (so I can get them replaced) or whether I am in a situation where this IEM is just so revealing of the source that I would be in for long term frustration (as almost all recordings are imperfect one way or another). But given the right earphone has slightly less of a problem could mean the frequency response is not as perfectly balanced across the two as I was expecting.

post #794 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by tigon_ridge View Post

I modded my stock foamies, by cutting them to halves. It worked extremely well, and allows me a very deep and comfortable insertion. With less foam surface area, insertion is much easier, as less twisting is necessary. I also use a bit of petroleum jelly which helps a lot with insertion. The sound is beautiful. I slept with these in my ears last night. Yes, you guessed it, I was facing the ceiling the entire time. After a while, this became uncomfortable as I really wanted to roll around, and I know that's a good well to injure my ear canals. As a result, I hardly had any sleep and eventually had to take them out, but very reluctantly, as the music was just wonderfully sublime. I had these in my ears at least 12 hours straight. There was no discomfort whatsoever in at the very end before I took them out, so that I could finally really sleep. This is by far a great investment. Now, let's hope they last much longer than my GR07 did (2 months).

Interesting..I did not think of petroleum jelly as it can sometimes be itchy, but on the other hand I can see that it would not likely effect the foam as much as other lubricants. I think I would probably be OK so long as I am not stuffing them in and out 10 times per day though. I am probably more worried about the way that deeper insertion IEMs will tend to push ear wax inwards whereas the body naturally pushes it out.

post #795 of 4810
Quote:
Originally Posted by ADD View Post

Interesting..I did not think of petroleum jelly as it can sometimes be itchy, but on the other hand I can see that it would not likely effect the foam as much as other lubricants. I think I would probably be OK so long as I am not stuffing them in and out 10 times per day though. I am probably more worried about the way that deeper insertion IEMs will tend to push ear wax inwards whereas the body naturally pushes it out.

Pure petroleum with no additives/fragrance. No itchiness whatsoever. Itchiness would be the result of so much twisting of the foamies against your ear canals, without any lubricants to relieve the friction. You're literally scratching your ear canals, which causes a release of histamines; hence, itching. Use pure petro jelly, my man. You won't regret it.

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