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If you still love Etymotic ER4, this is the thread for you... - Page 41

post #601 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by davidsh View Post

Just a question..

I have got the iphone 4 and the etymotic hf5 arrived just yesterday. Also to me, the etymotics are great, actually fantastic, and they are my first somewhat expensive iems.

Anyways how loud can i turn up the iphone whilst not damaging my ears, anybody got any experience with these iems?

For those who don't know, the hf5's have got an impedance of only 16 ohms, and a sensitivity of 105 dB.

 

I would suggest that someone with an hf3 or hf2 should help out by downloading the Awareness! app onto their iPhone and seeing how much the app adjusts the volume by in normal settings. That value should give you a good idea of the volume level that you should set your hf5 to.


Edited by tomscy2000 - 10/4/12 at 3:20am
post #602 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by gnarlsagan View Post

Wow that's quite a test. Thanks for sharing. It's odd that your findings don't agree with the measurements of these iems. The hf5 should decrease after 2kHz. I wonder if the ER4S would fare better than the hf5 in your test.

 

I doubt it. The ER4S has slightly less bass, and is otherwise similar (FR-wise). I'm more sensitive to highs than average, true, but not enough to explain the rather sharp increase in volume I perceive starting at 1.5 kHz (and culminating at 3 kHz and 8 kHz). Very simply, I think that Etymotic's measurements aren't perfect. I believe their IEMs aren't as neutral as advertised but are louder at higher frequencies. Why don't you test them yourself?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tomscy2000 View Post
That's because he looks like this (trust me, I've seen him): 

 

I'm a Caucasian living in Taipei. Of course my nose will look slightly prominent!


Edited by Sinocelt - 10/4/12 at 7:10am
post #603 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post

 

I doubt it. The ER4S has slightly less bass, and is otherwise similar (FR-wise). I'm more sensitive to highs than average, true, but not enough to explain the rather sharp increase in volume I perceive starting at 1.5 kHz (and culminating at 3 kHz and 8 kHz). Very simply, I think that Etymotic's measurements aren't perfect. I believe their IEMs aren't as neutral as advertised but are louder at higher frequencies. Why don't you test them yourself?

 

I'm a Caucasian living in Taipei. Of course my nose will look slightly prominent!

 

 

Well, the 4.A has much more bass than the ER4S and is more neutral to my ears.

 

I haven't made a chart for the ER4S, but I've made one for the HF5 (same drivers, not hand-matched, different impedance, a bit more bass) and I hear it start to roll off as early as 125 Hz. I also hear a rather sharp increase in volume starting at 1.5 kHz, up to nearly 12 kHz.

 

To my ears, the Atrio (MG7) is a lot flatter.

 

Difference between 45 Hz and 12 kHz:

  • HF5: 27 dB a
  • MG7: 12 dB 
  • 4.A: 21 dB 

 

Greatest difference:

  • HF5: 36 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 8 KHz
  • MG7: 15 dB between 45 Hz and 2 kHz 
  • 4.A: 21 dB between 45 Hz and 3 kHz / 4 kHz / 12 kHz

 

This test was conducted with a DACport at max volume, starting from -60 dB at 1 kHz.

Etymotic use  a Zwislocki coupler, a very fine piece for measuring. The accuracy of the Etymotics line-up has also been highly re-approved by 3rd parties throughout, matter of fact they're used as a reference most in most cases. It's still not without it's controversies but it's still very very accurate, no doubt.

 

To my ears with stock dampers and triflanges. The HF5 does have a slight bump at 1.5k, but it's then a bit conservative throughout the midhighs and treble and roll offs at like 15k, till finally finishing off at 17k. I am currently using modded tips and red knowles dampers which increased bass a little, evened out frequencies pats 1k due to the dampers but increased the whole treble regions because of the short wide bore tips. To my ears, it's one of the most neutral set-ups I've ever heard, will be surprised if the 4.A can at least be on par (which I will know soon). 

 

ER4S is not HF5 with less bass. It does have less bass but regions from 1k to it's limits are increased overall, becoming flatter, the HF5s with stock tips and filter are a bit conservative if anything, given right fit. 

 

Note, things can highly change without proper insertion depth or tips. I know with really long tips or a more shallow insertion the treble can become uneven. 

 

Such a claim for the MG7, considering it's never mentioned as neutral. 

 

That's a poor test to try out frequency response, try a good old frequency sweep, this one is odd then again it's not meant to do a test such as this. 


Edited by Inks - 10/4/12 at 11:38am
post #604 of 4677

^ I approve that post

post #605 of 4677
Ditto...
Quote:
Originally Posted by robm321 View Post

^ I approve that post
post #606 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post

 

I doubt it. The ER4S has slightly less bass, and is otherwise similar (FR-wise). I'm more sensitive to highs than average, true, but not enough to explain the rather sharp increase in volume I perceive starting at 1.5 kHz (and culminating at 3 kHz and 8 kHz). Very simply, I think that Etymotic's measurements aren't perfect. I believe their IEMs aren't as neutral as advertised but are louder at higher frequencies. Why don't you test them yourself?

 

I just tried that test with the ER-6 and don't experience a volume increase starting at 1.5kHz. Volume is actually level all the way down to 45 Hz. Odd.  

post #607 of 4677

Hey guys,

 

Quick question about the ER4 filter -- which way does it go? I bought one used and the filters are installed two different way -- on so that the green "film" is close to the top and the other so that the "film" is not visible if I look at it head on. Which way is the correct way to install?

 

Thanks!

post #608 of 4677

Mine are brand new and when I remove the tip I see the green filter. Not sure if that helps or not.

post #609 of 4677
The type of filter that you are describing are old style metal barrel filters.

If it were me, I would first and fore most want them in the same orientation. Besides that, I am not sure it makes any difference.

Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroicPenguin View Post

Hey guys,

Quick question about the ER4 filter -- which way does it go? I bought one used and the filters are installed two different way -- on so that the green "film" is close to the top and the other so that the "film" is not visible if I look at it head on. Which way is the correct way to install?

Thanks!
post #610 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by AstroTurf View Post

The type of filter that you are describing are old style metal barrel filters.
If it were me, I would first and fore most want them in the same orientation. Besides that, I am not sure it makes any difference.
Jim

 

Hmmm, is it bad if they're old? Do they take the new ones or is that incompatible?

post #611 of 4677
Old Style... Metal Barrel. Used to be sold by Etymotic back when your IEMs were new.

New Style... Plastic Barrel. Currently sold by Etymotic.

Both are the color green which indicates a resistance value. So old style or new, they both serve the same purpose.

Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroicPenguin View Post

Hmmm, is it bad if they're old? Do they take the new ones or is that incompatible?
post #612 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by HeroicPenguin View Post

Hey guys,

 

Quick question about the ER4 filter -- which way does it go? I bought one used and the filters are installed two different way -- on so that the green "film" is close to the top and the other so that the "film" is not visible if I look at it head on. Which way is the correct way to install?

 

Thanks!


Close to the top and visible is the correct orientation.  Aside from shaping the sound, the filter prevents debris from entering the earphone so the film side should be closer to the opening.

post #613 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sinocelt View Post

 

Since the ER-4 cable can be switched, I don't understand why Etymotic doesn't offer an alternative option. It wouldn't have to be complicated: just a different angle for the stress relief.

 

That's a really good point.  I'll have to ask them about that.

post #614 of 4677
But won't this form of insertion prevent removal without destroying the filter material?

Thanks, Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by ert View Post


Close to the top and visible is the correct orientation.  Aside from shaping the sound, the filter prevents debris from entering the earphone so the film side should be closer to the opening.
post #615 of 4677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Inks View Post

Etymotic use  a Zwislocki coupler, a very fine piece for measuring. The accuracy of the Etymotics line-up has also been highly re-approved by 3rd parties throughout, matter of fact they're used as a reference most in most cases. It's still not without it's controversies but it's still very very accurate, no doubt.

The Etymotic founder Dr. Killion essentially defined how the industry measures accuracy:

 

Quote:
"I extended their 21band calculation to a 25band calculation and included it in my Ph.D. research at Northwestern. I confirmed the excellent correlation Consumer Reports had reported between fidelity ratings and accuracy scores using three separate groups (one included Julian Hirsh of Stereo Review) listening to loudspeakers, earphones, and hearing aids. We routinely use the 25band accuracy score in all of our design programs, and report the results on our data sheets. Our ER4S obtains a score of 92%, which puts it above most loudspeakers and well above competitive intheear earphones. The accuracy score is probably the single most important tool for earphone design. "
 

 

It's really unfortunate that the industry has abandoned quantitative accuracy metrics in favor of connoisseurism.


Edited by ert - 10/4/12 at 8:24pm
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